tricky decision

[ACE2M]

£20 live re buy. Both players are the biggest stacks at the table and in the top 5. Ave would be around 15k.

25 players left - Money at 9. Blinds are 800/1600 no antes. 8 players at your table.

You are on the BB with and 29k in chips and have a tight image

Folded to the SB who is a strong player who raises to 4800 out of his 30k stack

You call the raise and re raise 10k more, SB instantly goes all in

Call or fold?

[boldie]

I don't like sticking half my chips in and then not calling. however you are quite far from the money and would only have 10x the BB left...It depends on the image i have of the other guy but at the moment I reckon your 6 is useless as a kicker as i take him for a middle pair (7's through 10's)...half your chips already in..this is the one guy you didn't want to get into a pissing match with..yet you did now you have to live with it I reckon...unless you think you can manage to dominate everyone else at the table with your remaining 14k of chips.

IOW depending on the other players at your table...if you can get their chips quite comfortably it's a fold...if not it's a call.

[matt674]

As much as i'd hate to unfortunately this would have to be a call for me - unless my opponent has AA then i'm looking at being a 3 to 1 underdog (though i may get a pleasant surprise when my opponent turns his hand over) as i figure i'm drawing to 3 outs - either three aces as my opponent has a pair between 6's and K's or three 6's as he also has an ace but a higher kicker. Plus there is a chance of hitting a nut flush to boot.

By passing however you would still have an average stack but with so many players left in the tournament and the blinds being as high as they are then an average stack is nowhere near enough to play with and the tournament is soon to descend into a crapshoot anyway. I'd take my chances with what i've got here.

Please note that this is monkey talking from a "live" game prespective. If this were an online tourney where you get to see more hands per level i would pass here and allow myself to fall back to average as i know i would have enough time to work my stack back to above average.

[ACE2M]

When SB makes his all in move he must surely be expecting a call, did this affect your decision?

[boldie]

When SB makes his all in move he must surely be expecting a call, did this affect your decision?

yes...that's why I am saying he's got pocket pair...he won't have Aces though..but he'll probably beat your 6'es. he also knows you're tight...and I have seen many a tight player fold if it means they can get knocked out of the tourney at that stage so I like his re-raise..no matter what hand he's got.

what you have to wonder is whether you want to stick all your chips in now (as you should have decided before you re-raised him).

[matt674]

not really sure what you mean here when you say "expecting a call", i've seen many a time where people pass to all in reraises even though they were so pot commited it is untrue. On this occasion it is borderline as to whether you are pot commited or not - yes you are getting 3-1 pot odds when there is a very good chance that you are a 3-1 underdog (provided your opponent doesnt have AA) but the fact that you would still have average chips if you pass means that you aren't necessarily pot commited.

Even if i am in the small blinds position and i am the one rereraising all in i would still want my opponent to pass rather than call even if i have AA as i have a 0% chance of losing. If i am called then i will take my chances but then i run the risk (no matter how small the odds) of being eliminated from the tournament (or as good as).

To be honest my decision was based on the fact that i was being offered the correct pot odds to make the call given the range of starting hands my opponent could be making that move with. Also based on the fact that this is a live tournament on i'm guessing something like a 20 minute clock where you are lucky if you get to see more than a round or two before the blinds go up. As there are still 3 tables left and a long way off the money i would rather take my chances on trying to become chip leader where i can then bully the weaker players with a 60k stack than have to fight amongst the average stack players trying to rebuild.

[Graham C]

what did happen?

[SupaMonkey]

Greenstein talks about situations similar to this in his book. He recounts times where he thought he was behind so folded to stay in the tourney only to get blinded out or just sneak into the money. He basically says if you have odds you should call because the money is really in the top 3 spots and that's all you're interested in.

I would call given your situation but i may have folded to his initial bet if he hasn't been raising my blind often. If he has done it frequently then i would reraise him.

[ACE2M]

it wasn't me, just spoke to the guy next to me about it and i said he could have folded and still been average and have a chance. The instant all in when imo he must have been expecting to get called stunk of AA, KK, QQ, the A6 guy called instantly and was knocked out by the AA of the original raiser.

I personally would have flat called or folded and almost certainly would have folded to the push.

[snoopy1239]

When SB makes his all in move he must surely be expecting a call, did this affect your decision?

I had a similar problem in this one, although it was the other way around, and I opted to fold A-J.

http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=9446.0

I think you can fold here, rather than sticking it in with a dominated Ace.

[Royal Flush]

Why don't you just fold pre flop?

[Horneris]

Ouch, why did you have to get involved here. Just let him take the odd one down until you get a proper hand. We had one of these at Leeds Gala the other day.

SB raises to 5k, BB raises to 12k (both have around 30k) and SB instantly shoots all in. The BB strangely considers folding before revealing JJ. The SB has A4, and dosent improve.

I believe you got caught by a monster hand or a big ace and should fold, because his hand must be good enough to expect your definetly going to call and then play the short stack game. You then have 2 rounds of blinds to find a hand.

[M3boy]

Why don't you just fold pre flop?

Exactly what I was thinking

[Nem]

Why don't you just fold pre flop?

Exactly what I was thinking

Amazing...

[ACE2M]

it wasn't me, just spoke to the guy next to me about it and i said he could have folded and still been average and have a chance. The instant all in when imo he must have been expecting to get called stunk of AA, KK, QQ, the A6 guy called instantly and was knocked out by the AA of the original raiser.

I personally would have flat called or folded and almost certainly would have folded to the push.

it wasn't me, i would certainly have called i think and folded to no improvement on the flop.

Annoyingly in this tournament i got dealt AA whilst shortstack only for it to be declared a misdeal for the 3rd time in my poker life.