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Author Topic: Heads Up Help? Should i call?  (Read 1929 times)
Enzyme_
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« on: December 19, 2006, 01:46:52 PM »


Enjoying Playing some heads up these days and today earlier i encountered this hand on reflection should i be calling the allin on the turn?

Seat 1: magicdume (3080 in chips)
Seat 2: Enzyme_ (2920 in chips)
Enzyme_: posts small blind 20
magicdume: posts big blind 40
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Enzyme_ [ ]
Enzyme_: calls 20
magicdume: checks
*** FLOP *** [ ]
magicdume: bets 40
Enzyme_: raises 80 to 120
magicdume: raises 120 to 240
Enzyme_: calls 120
*** TURN *** [ ] [two hearts]
magicdume: bets 2800 and is all-in

I wait to be flamed for playing in the first place!
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doubleup
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« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2006, 02:03:13 PM »

If you are ahead you are probably up against a monster draw so I don't think you are giving up a huge amount by folding here.
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boldie
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« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2006, 02:31:02 PM »

playing the 69 is fine for the extra 20..don't worry about it...you're on the button and even raising with it would have been fine.

I would have reraised the flop again...raise it upto 600 and see what he does (though I know I very likely wouldn't lay down two pair on this flop) ...have his chips go all-in there as only the flopped straight would beat you.

I don't get why he would stick all his chips in the middle when that 2 came out...unless he just made his trips and thinks you'll call anyways but even then...why would he reraise your reraise on the flop..that's just bad play IMO.

I would probably take him for an overpair here and call (depending on how he played untill then).


In fact..the more I go over this hand the more I think he slowplayed a monster (QQ+) and the more I think about it the more I'd be sure I'm ahead.

ofcourse he could have the flopped straight..but that's just be unlucky.


Edit* BTW..the fold is fine aswell of course you have enough chips to still beat him so I wouldn't worry about it if I'd folded it. Being up against a monster draw...that'd be fine by me with only the river to come.
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Enzyme_
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« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2006, 02:45:47 PM »

playing the 69 is fine for the extra 20..don't worry about it...you're on the button and even raising with it would have been fine.

I would have reraised the flop again...raise it upto 600 and see what he does (though I know I very likely wouldn't lay down two pair on this flop) ...have his chips go all-in there as only the flopped straight would beat you.

I don't get why he would stick all his chips in the middle when that 2 came out...unless he just made his trips and thinks you'll call anyways but even then...why would he reraise your reraise on the flop..that's just bad play IMO.

I would probably take him for an overpair here and call (depending on how he played untill then).


In fact..the more I go over this hand the more I think he slowplayed a monster (QQ+) and the more I think about it the more I'd be sure I'm ahead.

ofcourse he could have the flopped straight..but that's just be unlucky.


Edit* BTW..the fold is fine aswell of course you have enough chips to still beat him so I wouldn't worry about it if I'd folded it. Being up against a monster draw...that'd be fine by me with only the river to come.

I like your thoughts on it i ended up decidin on him slowplaying a big pair and that he decided to jam the turn so ultimatly am only calling with made straight, so i called and shows 52

River Ace so i was safe from the belly buster but just cant seem to work out what his goal was there with that play!
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doubleup
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« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2006, 02:53:28 PM »

Wow good call once again I would've been outplayed by someone hugely overplaying a hand.  I suppose the flop action might have led to the conclusion that he had tpgk or overpair, but putting him on 52 ......
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Enzyme_
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« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2006, 03:10:11 PM »

Wow good call once again I would've been outplayed by someone hugely overplaying a hand.  I suppose the flop action might have led to the conclusion that he had tpgk or overpair, but putting him on 52 ......

Love it Smiley

Tho i never put him on 52 thats what he was playing with Tongue i guess he was slow playing a bigger hand! and if he had the straight i was paying him off as he would want!
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boldie
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« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2006, 03:25:23 PM »

playing the 69 is fine for the extra 20..don't worry about it...you're on the button and even raising with it would have been fine.

I would have reraised the flop again...raise it upto 600 and see what he does (though I know I very likely wouldn't lay down two pair on this flop) ...have his chips go all-in there as only the flopped straight would beat you.

I don't get why he would stick all his chips in the middle when that 2 came out...unless he just made his trips and thinks you'll call anyways but even then...why would he reraise your reraise on the flop..that's just bad play IMO.

I would probably take him for an overpair here and call (depending on how he played untill then).


In fact..the more I go over this hand the more I think he slowplayed a monster (QQ+) and the more I think about it the more I'd be sure I'm ahead.

ofcourse he could have the flopped straight..but that's just be unlucky.


Edit* BTW..the fold is fine aswell of course you have enough chips to still beat him so I wouldn't worry about it if I'd folded it. Being up against a monster draw...that'd be fine by me with only the river to come.

I like your thoughts on it i ended up decidin on him slowplaying a big pair and that he decided to jam the turn so ultimatly am only calling with made straight, so i called and shows 52

River Ace so i was safe from the belly buster but just cant seem to work out what his goal was there with that play!

That's a strange play by him...as soon as you called his re-re-raise on the flop he had to know he was behind and he had plenty of chips left.


I just don't understand people who feel the need to stick 2800 into a 500 pot, you see it a lot HU and it's just a bad play no matter what hand you have IMO.

Good call and nice that you took the cash off him.
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SupaMonkey
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« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2006, 03:35:41 PM »

Weren't you worried about another 2pr here Boldie. The 2 comes down and he moves in, it looks like he is protecting a made hand 9-8/6-8 etc. I can see why he did what he did, he has an inside str8 draw and probably figures you for a pair with a draw (or maybe just a draw). He thinks that if he leads you move in on him and he can't call but if he moves in, he knocks out loadsa hands that are ahead of him and he probably gives himself 6+ outs to win if he is called.
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boldie
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« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2006, 04:03:41 PM »

Weren't you worried about another 2pr here Boldie. The 2 comes down and he moves in, it looks like he is protecting a made hand 9-8/6-8 etc. I can see why he did what he did, he has an inside str8 draw and probably figures you for a pair with a draw (or maybe just a draw). He thinks that if he leads you move in on him and he can't call but if he moves in, he knocks out loadsa hands that are ahead of him and he probably gives himself 6+ outs to win if he is called.

the only other 2 pair that beats you here is 8's and 9's, so not too worried about that one..if he happens to have that then that's fair enough.

The reason I don't like his push is because it's completely unnecessary and his oppo will know that to. 2800 left at these blind levels is more than enough.

Protecting a made hand, he could do with a 1k bet. I would probably be more worried about a 1k bet then about someone shoving all his chips in the middle. Shoving all your chips in the middle on this board into this pot is not something I would do when holding 2 pair+. Not if I were leading out anyways.

yes he has an inside straight draw..but to risk your entire tourney against someone who reraised you and then called your re-reraise on the flop (which was a fairly weak one BTW...so he tried to show strenght there as Enzyme was always likely to call that one) with essentially nothing but an inside straight draw is silly and I reckon there's no excuse for it really.

If he had continued with a 800-1k raise it would have shown more strenght after his min raise and small re-reraise on the flop and it would have put me off a call more.

If he had shoved with the made straight then he would have been paid off by me, but most people wouldn't do that as they would be milking it.

Of course people with 1 pair would probably fold to his shove..but then again..they would probably fold to a 1K bet aswell.

I know the above is not really a coherent post..but I've got the mother of all man-colds so can't really be too bothered posting a very long and thought out post.

I probably will later on though....as I can't leave a HU post alone Smiley


Edit*


And there we go...still with the cold but here's a thought.

What if he had checked the turn?

Enzyme would probably have stuck in a raise...say 500? then he jams..continuing to show strenght and now compared to the pot it's fairly justifiable after all..any serious raise would leave you commited.. I bet ya Enzyme would be more inclined to fold then. afterall he would still have around 2k left at these blind levels and you've shown a reasonable amount of strenght both on the flop (with min raises and re-re raises) and the turn with your check raise.

I would have liked that play...Just don't like the jam here.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2006, 04:16:32 PM by boldie » Logged

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SupaMonkey
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« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2006, 04:34:10 PM »

Thanks for your reply. I meant that i thought he flopped at least 2 pr (when i read the initial HH obviously).

Enzyme would probably have stuck in a raise...say 500? then he jams..continuing to show strenght and now compared to the pot it's fairly justifiable after all..any serious raise would leave you commited.. I bet ya Enzyme would be more inclined to fold then. afterall he would still have around 2k left at these blind levels and you've shown a reasonable amount of strenght both on the flop (with min raises and re-re raises) and the turn with your check raise.

I would have liked that play...Just don't like the jam here.

Yes, Greenstein mentions a similar play in his book (well, MP and an inside straight draw). It's great when it works but you feel like a fool/reckless when it doesn't.
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boldie
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« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2006, 07:04:42 PM »

Thanks for your reply. I meant that i thought he flopped at least 2 pr (when i read the initial HH obviously).

Enzyme would probably have stuck in a raise...say 500? then he jams..continuing to show strenght and now compared to the pot it's fairly justifiable after all..any serious raise would leave you commited.. I bet ya Enzyme would be more inclined to fold then. afterall he would still have around 2k left at these blind levels and you've shown a reasonable amount of strenght both on the flop (with min raises and re-re raises) and the turn with your check raise.

I would have liked that play...Just don't like the jam here.

Yes, Greenstein mentions a similar play in his book (well, MP and an inside straight draw). It's great when it works but you feel like a fool/reckless when it doesn't.

hmm haven't read`Greensteins book (is it any good?)

The thing when representing something is only to think about "How should i play this so that my opponent will believe me" and I think the checkraise raise is much more likely to be believed then just shoving.
I just about guarantee you this guy will feel a bigger fool for just shoving then he would have felt if he had check raised it.
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SupaMonkey
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« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2006, 07:35:50 PM »

Greenstein's book is pretty (i.e. slick) but there is only about 100 pages of poker info in there and the rest is about life as a pro etc. Worth borrowing from a m8 rather than buying imo.
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boldie
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« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2006, 07:56:12 PM »

Greenstein's book is pretty (i.e. slick) but there is only about 100 pages of poker info in there and the rest is about life as a pro etc. Worth borrowing from a m8 rather than buying imo.

ok...just have to find mates who aren't cheap then Wink
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« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2006, 08:58:24 PM »

The only horrible thing you did was limp in from the button, and it's an auto call for me
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