Call or shove?

[Lucky]

Live MTT, £30 buy in, 43 Runners, 23 left, 7 paid
25 minute blinds – currently 300/600

My stack 18,100, opponent covers this by a little, average is c 24,000

New to table, no reads on opponent or vice versa.

Folded round to me on the button, I have   and raised to 1,800. SB folds and BB dwells then calls.

Flop is    

I c- bet for 3,100 and opponent min raised to 6,200.

I have 13,200 left.   I’m never folding here, so what’s my best move – flat call or shove?

[outragous76]

EZ shove for me

Not knowing anything about the villain - he could have flatted a monster - but you have a gazillion outs to most hands except Axdd

[paulhouk03]

i would raise to 1450 coz its the cooler thing to do

never folding on this flop i would cib or just shove

[TheChipPrince]

If you call and a complete blank hits the turn, BB shoves, are you not leaving yourself in a position (which you've created) which is semi-tricky?

[scotty77]

i would raise to 1450 coz its the cooler thing to do

never folding on this flop i would cib or just shove

this and just shove.  give yourself 2 ways to win and ofc if you just call and the turn is a  or something then we'll be FFSSSSS

get it in.

[Royal Flush]

Raise less pre, bet less post, both of which increase your FE when you 3b jam this flop.

[Lucky]

Raise less pre, bet less post, both of which increase your FE when you 3b jam this flop.

Thanks for this. All makes perfect sense and I particularly take the point about the pre flop raise.

My larger than usual flop bet was because (a) I'd be to take the pot there and then  and (b) I was pot committing in my mind as I would be happy getting it all in if raised, as I perceived I'd be favourite in the hand.  Is this thinking wrong?

[Lucky]

EZ shove for me

Not knowing anything about the villain - he could have flatted a monster - but you have a gazillion outs to most hands except Axdd

Guy - good to meet you recently. It was an easy shove for me too - I just wanted some opinions because of what happend next /and what was said to me afterwards.

I shoved. He dwelt for ages and made what seemed to be a very reluctant call.  I was hoping to see a TPTK or 2 pair type of hand but he actually had  which was one of the worst possible hands for me, so you hit the nail on the head.

For me his hand would be a snap call but he was very close to folding, so Flushy's point about fold equity is well made. The turn and river blanked and I lost the hand.

It's not a bad beat story as I was behind all the way. I wanted feedback on how it played out as someone else at the table suggested I should have flat called the flop raise and then pushed on any non dangerous turn card. I think i did the right thing though and was keen to hear other opinions.

[Free_Rollin]

I think all your actions were correct Alan, just as mentioned already, the bet sizing could have been better.

To be fair, villain is crazy if he's ever check raising you to 6200, when you have 13k remaining and ever thinking about folding to a shove.

The point about FE here is crucial. In spots like these, even though you're happy to get it in on this flop, the more FE you have the better. If you make it like 1500 pre, 2300/2400 on the flop, and even if he check-mins you back, he'll probably fold to the 8k remaining taking into consideration how you've described villain.

edit to add: btw, as played, get it in.

[Lucky]

I think all your actions were correct Alan, just as mentioned already, the bet sizing could have been better.

To be fair, villain is crazy if he's ever check raising you to 6200, when you have 13k remaining and ever thinking about folding to a shove.

The point about FE here is crucial. In spots like these, even though you're happy to get it in on this flop, the more FE you have the better. If you make it like 1500 pre, 2300/2400 on the flop, and even if he check-mins you back, he'll probably fold to the 8k remaining taking into consideration how you've described villain.

edit to add: btw, as played, get it in.

Agree Sunny.  He should be snap calling, but given his pained call, a bit more FE may well have got him to fold.

Similarly given what we now know about the player, he may well have checked after a blank turn, allowing me to bet him off the pot at that point, hence the other players comment about flatting his min raise - but I think this is all results oriented and it was best to get it in on the flop.

[Claw75]

I think all your actions were correct Alan, just as mentioned already, the bet sizing could have been better.

To be fair, villain is crazy if he's ever check raising you to 6200, when you have 13k remaining and ever thinking about folding to a shove.

The point about FE here is crucial. In spots like these, even though you're happy to get it in on this flop, the more FE you have the better. If you make it like 1500 pre, 2300/2400 on the flop, and even if he check-mins you back, he'll probably fold to the 8k remaining taking into consideration how you've described villain.

edit to add: btw, as played, get it in.

Agree Sunny.  He should be snap calling, but given his pained call, a bit more FE may well have got him to fold.

Similarly given what we now know about the player, he may well have checked after a blank turn, allowing me to bet him off the pot at that point, hence the other players comment about flatting his min raise - but I think this is all results oriented and it was best to get it in on the flop.

All very easy to analyse how you could have won the hand in hindsight.  Agree with the others, raise less pre and therefore c-bet less, but as played get 'em in on the flop.

[pleno1]

c/back the flop isnt terrible.