Mid tournament strategy

[pswnio]

OK. Help please.

400 runner $30 freezeout. 5000 starting chips. I'm setting out to place top 5 where the real money is.

First hour - The table is solid. Ideal. I play Harrington poker and move up to 14k by the end of the hour. Average stack now at 8k, chip leaders on about 23-28k.

Question 1 - What should my second hour strategy be? Blinds are now at 150/300. I have a very solid table image and every time I've moved to showdown I've had a strong hand that was legitimately played pre flop. Should I be seeking to up the aggression and target medium stacks' blinds? Should I be trying to get into pots cheaply and take them down? Or should I consolidate, wait for decent starting hands and continue to play a Harrington style game? (bearing in mind the table is pretty tight and no-one is really making moves.)

Second hour - I decided to increase the aggression and use my table chip lead, but I didn't really get a chance. AK was busted by AJ, and after an aborted blind steal attempt when blinds were at 300/600, at the end of level 2 my stack was down to 6k.

Third hour - It's push with any two time with blinds up to 400-800. Luckily I score pocket that hold up and then hit a short stack's Ace rag with AQ and I'm back up to 16000.

Question 2 - This puts me back in the mixer. 55th of 95, but the chip leaders are moving away - top 5 range from 50-65k. Blinds now up to 600-1200. At this point, what is my strategy? Do I wait for a decent hand and push? Do I have enough chips to raise from late position with decent suited connectors? One aborted blind steal will cost me 20-25% of my stack. Or do I consolidate, hang in there for the bubble, and play SLAG then? This is where I'm really struggling.

Halfway through the third hour I got moved to a new table. I was cursing. I didn't have time (I think) to hang around studying these guys.

I wasn't planning on making any moves till I'd at least briefly scoped the table. But on the second hand of this new table, something came over me. In my BB, holding 45, it was folded round to the small BB, who min raised. I re-raised. He called. He checked the flop, no A or K, I pushed, he called, I lost. Wrong forum for hand analysis, but a general question...

Question 3 - If you spy a spot where you think you might resteal some chips with 16k and blinds at 600-1200, is it worth it, or do you really need deeper stacks to do this? Because if you get caught with your hand in the till, your stack is decimated...

I don't know whether I should have gone for this resteal, with no knowledge of the min raising villain, or whether I'd have been better off waiting for a decent hand. But I wanted to protect my blind, show the table that I couldn't be bullied, etc.

Any strategic help you can give would be much appreciated. Ta.

[Moskvich]

This sounds like pretty much every tournament I ever play, so I can't help, but am looking forward to the answers...

[bhoywonder]

At least u know that a gear change is required.....

many people stick to their original gear ( myself included  when not concentrating )

i guess identifying the lags n tags and adapting to their tendenacies...and do the opposite of what they want is the approach...easier said than done of course ...


u appear to be on the right track however....remember that many players including the medium stacks are now getting anxious as much as u when nearing the money

[Jon MW]

I'd agree with that.

The one thing I'd add though is I wouldn't try that sort of re-steal move (because I'm absurdly tight), but if you are going to, I'd re-raise all-in.

This makes it more likely that he'll fold, but if he doesn't and you win you'll have won more chips. This avoids the problem of having your chip stack decimated , if you're going to gamble - gamble bigger. 

[Peter Costa]

OK. Help please.

400 runner $30 freezeout. 5000 starting chips. I'm setting out to place top 5 where the real money is.

First hour - The table is solid. Ideal. I play Harrington poker and move up to 14k by the end of the hour. Average stack now at 8k, chip leaders on about 23-28k.

Question 1 - What should my second hour strategy be? Blinds are now at 150/300. I have a very solid table image and every time I've moved to showdown I've had a strong hand that was legitimately played pre flop. Should I be seeking to up the aggression and target medium stacks' blinds? Should I be trying to get into pots cheaply and take them down? Or should I consolidate, wait for decent starting hands and continue to play a Harrington style game? (bearing in mind the table is pretty tight and no-one is really making moves.)

Second hour - I decided to increase the aggression and use my table chip lead, but I didn't really get a chance. AK was busted by AJ, and after an aborted blind steal attempt when blinds were at 300/600, at the end of level 2 my stack was down to 6k.

Third hour - It's push with any two time with blinds up to 400-800. Luckily I score pocket that hold up and then hit a short stack's Ace rag with AQ and I'm back up to 16000.

Question 2 - This puts me back in the mixer. 55th of 95, but the chip leaders are moving away - top 5 range from 50-65k. Blinds now up to 600-1200. At this point, what is my strategy? Do I wait for a decent hand and push? Do I have enough chips to raise from late position with decent suited connectors? One aborted blind steal will cost me 20-25% of my stack. Or do I consolidate, hang in there for the bubble, and play SLAG then? This is where I'm really struggling.

Halfway through the third hour I got moved to a new table. I was cursing. I didn't have time (I think) to hang around studying these guys.

I wasn't planning on making any moves till I'd at least briefly scoped the table. But on the second hand of this new table, something came over me. In my BB, holding 45, it was folded round to the small BB, who min raised. I re-raised. He called. He checked the flop, no A or K, I pushed, he called, I lost. Wrong forum for hand analysis, but a general question...

Question 3 - If you spy a spot where you think you might resteal some chips with 16k and blinds at 600-1200, is it worth it, or do you really need deeper stacks to do this? Because if you get caught with your hand in the till, your stack is decimated...

I don't know whether I should have gone for this resteal, with no knowledge of the min raising villain, or whether I'd have been better off waiting for a decent hand. But I wanted to protect my blind, show the table that I couldn't be bullied, etc.

Any strategic help you can give would be much appreciated. Ta.

Q1.

I have found myself in similar position, in terms of needing to ask myself what my strategy should be after such a first hour. As an example, I will use one of the 5K evenst at last year's WSOP.

After playing "funny poker" of calling blind and sometimes raising blind (making it obvious to the other players that I had in fact NOT looked at my cards) for an hour: the increase in blinds always ensured a re-evaluation. In this case, having increased my starting stack to about 7.5K, I decided to continue with playing "funny poker" for as long as I could. In this case, I actually doubled to 15k before a change of tables encouraged a change of tactics. But with having gone two hours in helping to "create an image". I perhaps felt it too demanding to start all over again.

As it happens, in the above event, I went dry for about 10 hours that night and lost all chance of winning. I did wonder at the time if I had done the right thing by changing styles. Perhaps if I carried on with the same approach, things may have been different. But then again, on other occasions, my downward change in gears proved beneficial. So I guess therefore, it really depends on circumstances. But I suppose given the choice, I would always choose what is working at the time. However, it's not easy to play one style or one gear, for very long periods of time. Especially if that styles requires great focus and alertness.

Q2.

Questions like this one are never easy to answer. Firstly, there is no "right" approach unless that approach works. It's therefore just a case of which one and when? Do I play tight, wait for a real hand? Do I steal blinds to keep me going? Or do I make moves by re-raising? I guess the answer is to play tight and wait for a real hand. However, that cannot last long if the real hand doesn't come. So be ready to steal the blinds. And if you have played tight for a while (but still not obviously desperate), your raises should receive a fair bit of respect. And if that is the case, then remember that an early-position raise, may actually receive even more respect. In other words, don't just wait for the button to steal blinds. Try just doubling the blinds UTG or early to act. You could be surprised at what you could getaway with. 

The other option is take a chance with a re-raise. However, this needs to be calculated very carefully. Firstly, make sure you have enough chips to carry out the move. In your above case, with blinds at 600-1200, you would probably face a raise of 3600. And in that case, 16K is enough to re-raise with; providing the raiser has enough chips to muck that is!

As for myself, having been in this spot many times over 30 years, I tend to use all three. However, I have found that the re-raise approach (when calculated), works best over the long-run. I guess even if you run into a hand, you will always have outs. But more importantly, you would be putting the pressure on your opponent. What would you prefer, raising 3600 with K-Q, A-T, A-J, 7-7 and then facing an all-in re-raise; or re-raising with any two cards and putting the pressure on your opponent? 



Q3.

Gave my thoughts on that above. But I guess sometimes, when you haven't got the chips to wait for a hand - you just need to get brave. And if you do get called, you need to get lucky! I guess this is what makes poker what it is, and that there is never just one answer. 

[AlexMartin]

OK. Help please.

400 runner $30 freezeout. 5000 starting chips. I'm setting out to place top 5 where the real money is.

First hour - The table is solid. Ideal. I play Harrington poker and move up to 14k by the end of the hour. Average stack now at 8k, chip leaders on about 23-28k.

Question 1 - What should my second hour strategy be? Blinds are now at 150/300. I have a very solid table image and every time I've moved to showdown I've had a strong hand that was legitimately played pre flop. Should I be seeking to up the aggression and target medium stacks' blinds? Should I be trying to get into pots cheaply and take them down? Or should I consolidate, wait for decent starting hands and continue to play a Harrington style game? (bearing in mind the table is pretty tight and no-one is really making moves.)

Second hour - I decided to increase the aggression and use my table chip lead, but I didn't really get a chance. AK was busted by AJ, and after an aborted blind steal attempt when blinds were at 300/600, at the end of level 2 my stack was down to 6k.

Third hour - It's push with any two time with blinds up to 400-800. Luckily I score pocket that hold up and then hit a short stack's Ace rag with AQ and I'm back up to 16000.

Question 2 - This puts me back in the mixer. 55th of 95, but the chip leaders are moving away - top 5 range from 50-65k. Blinds now up to 600-1200. At this point, what is my strategy? Do I wait for a decent hand and push? Do I have enough chips to raise from late position with decent suited connectors? One aborted blind steal will cost me 20-25% of my stack. Or do I consolidate, hang in there for the bubble, and play SLAG then? This is where I'm really struggling.

Halfway through the third hour I got moved to a new table. I was cursing. I didn't have time (I think) to hang around studying these guys.

I wasn't planning on making any moves till I'd at least briefly scoped the table. But on the second hand of this new table, something came over me. In my BB, holding 45, it was folded round to the small BB, who min raised. I re-raised. He called. He checked the flop, no A or K, I pushed, he called, I lost. Wrong forum for hand analysis, but a general question...

Question 3 - If you spy a spot where you think you might resteal some chips with 16k and blinds at 600-1200, is it worth it, or do you really need deeper stacks to do this? Because if you get caught with your hand in the till, your stack is decimated...

I don't know whether I should have gone for this resteal, with no knowledge of the min raising villain, or whether I'd have been better off waiting for a decent hand. But I wanted to protect my blind, show the table that I couldn't be bullied, etc.

Any strategic help you can give would be much appreciated. Ta.

Hi mate, iv just been thinking a lot about this and re--read some of my old material from my MTT days. Iv recently gone back to online MTT's and it really is a totally different beast to live MTT or cash. Heres a few of my thoughts and i hope they are of some use. I apologise if my tone sounds patronising i dont mean to.

First things 1st, dont have a mindset of top 3. Your mindset is winning the lot. This means chips and lots of them. And poker tournaments are supposed to be fun. The comps i have won i have won by raising ALOT. By raising you control the pot and force other players to have a hand. You get a good image and will get paid with your big hands. Approach the game from a 1st or nothing viewpoint.


Q1) I think you have to find a style of poker that you are comfortable with. I like to play very lag and play lots of pots to attempt to accumulate lots of chips that i can use well later on. You get masses of action when you actually get a hand its a whole lot more fun

In the example you give i really would start to raise with a lot more regularity now. Dont raise too often from the button as it just looks dodgy but from the cutoff and hijack raise with any 2 cards with potential when 1st to enter the pot. Play more marginal monsters more strongly than before too. I often think JJ and AQ turn into re-raising hands when 1/2 the field has gone. Build on that solid image you have shown but bear in mind that a lot of players wont have noticed and will only be playing their own cards.

Second hour - I decided to increase the aggression and use my table chip lead, but I didn't really get a chance. AK was busted by AJ, and after an aborted blind steal attempt when blinds were at 300/600, at the end of level 2 my stack was down to 6k.   Shit happens, ur doing the right thing.

Q2) Do not take your foot off the pedal. This is a mistake that a lot of players make at this stage myself included. They stop accumulating and wait for a big hand. What happens is their stack dwindles, then they finally pick up a hand and everyone gives them immense respect and passes. Keep raising in unopened pots as long as the blinds are not too short-stacked from late position. The cards you have really dont matter that much as you wont be getting involved if anyone calls you or re-raises you. The beauty of this is, even blind squirrels find the nuts and you will get paid hansomely when you hit 

One thing i would say at this stage is you really can play a bit of high risk high reward poker. Pick on the weaker opponents and call their raises with non-dominated cards like 56s or 89o IN POSITION. On non-scary boards you can after a bit of practice detect a weak continuation bet with a missed AK and snap them off with aggressive re-raises.

With regard to the 45 hand, DONT be calling any raise at this stage unless you hold a BIG BIG hand or you have a big big stack. No calling raises with KQ, no calling raises with 99, none of that bollox. If you are gonna make your move here, do it preflop as % wise you are not gonna flop a nice board for 45 often enough to get paid.

Q3) Re-raising is the easiest way to accumulate chips in MTT tournaments. You have to know your player mind but against a button/cutoff raiser with an M of 8 im re-raising all-in (assuming the chips stack dynamics are good) about 1/3 of the time. You NEED chips, never let this fact leave your head. You have to do Everything you can to get them. If you can put them under pressure, do it.

If by chance you do suckout and win a monster pot with a bag of shite- lets say for examle you come over the top of a button raiser with 67s and he has AK and you suckout your 40/60- CHANGE GEARS. I find the only time to change out of LAG is when you get your hand caught in the till bigtime or ppl start to re-raise you.

Anyhow, thats my thoughts, hope it helps. If you take 1 thing from this, take this. The first person to open the betting up preflop controls the pot. Bet and raise your way to a big stack.

[M3boy]

Just play big hands and hope to double up each time - well thats what I do according to alot of people

Seriously, some good advice given in the above 2 posts.

Wonderfull game this Poker is.....

[kinboshi]

Great posts fellas. 

[AlexMartin]

Just been practicing what i preach in the Ipoker MTT's. Played really aggressively throughout a 200 runner $50 FO and came second. Sure, i got lucky, but i got a huge stack later on when i got some hands and some non-believers. Got the confidence back.

[pswnio]

Alex and Peter - thanks very much for your lengthy considered replies. Really, really helpful and very much appreciated.

[M3boy]

Just been practicing what i preach in the Ipoker MTT's. Played really aggressively throughout a 200 runner $50 FO and came second. Sure, i got lucky, but i got a huge stack later on when i got some hands and some non-believers. Got the confidence back.

Confidence is VERY important.

[lazaroonie]

And if you have played tight for a while (but still not obviously desperate), your raises should receive a fair bit of respect. And if that is the case, then remember that an early-position raise, may actually receive even more respect. In other words, don't just wait for the button to steal blinds. Try just doubling the blinds UTG or early to act. You could be surprised at what you could getaway with. 

I like this advice, but would suggest that while it may work in a Live environment, or even in a decent standard online event, it is seriously flawed against most of the mugs who play the lower level MTT's. Small raises get very little respect at these levels, and you are more likely just to get called by a later position player - which will then cause you problems being out of position after the flop.

My own mid-tournament strategy when I have a respectable amount of chips relative to the blinds and other players is to play small pot poker as much as possible, and to do this I am only going to this when I have a) position and b) a decent hand. But I wont be putting my tournament life on the line every two minutes.