What the hell does this mean?

[Graham C]

I seem to be being owned today by stupid min raises that I'm ending up folding to (i.e. checked to me, I bet 60c, instaminraise to 1.20) or even more crazy bets like this.  Earlier someone pushed  all in on me for $15 for a 40c pot!

PokerStars Game #14430589425:  Hold'em No Limit ($0.05/$0.10) - 2008/01/09 - 08:06:06 (ET)
Table 'Cornelia' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: JustFun[est] ($20.60 in chips)
Seat 2: Graham0573 ($9.40 in chips)
Seat 3: redalert87 ($4.35 in chips)
Seat 4: jjjooo111 ($10.15 in chips)
Seat 5: Miloho ($3.15 in chips)
Seat 6: netlob ($12.65 in chips)
Graham0573: posts small blind $0.05
redalert87: posts big blind $0.10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Graham0573 [ ]
jjjooo111: calls $0.10
Miloho: folds
netlob: calls $0.10
JustFun[est]: folds
Graham0573: calls $0.05
redalert87: checks
*** FLOP *** [ ]
Graham0573: bets $0.40
redalert87: raises $3.85 to $4.25 and is all-in
Graham0573 said, "3.85?"
jjjooo111: folds
netlob: folds
Graham0573: ?

How the hell can you build a roll at these stakes?  I think I'd prefer to continue playing outside my BR.

[Graham C]

And this just now, what the hell?

PokerStars Game #14430630884:  Hold'em No Limit ($0.05/$0.10) - 2008/01/09 - 08:10:45 (ET)
Table 'Cornelia' 6-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: JustFun[est] ($20.45 in chips)
Seat 2: Graham0573 ($4.90 in chips)
Seat 3: redalert87 ($8.60 in chips)
Seat 4: jjjooo111 ($10.45 in chips)
Seat 5: Miloho ($3.55 in chips)
Seat 6: netlob ($11.90 in chips)
redalert87: posts small blind $0.05
jjjooo111: posts big blind $0.10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Graham0573 [ ]
Miloho: folds
netlob: folds
JustFun[est]: folds
netlob is sitting out
Graham0573: raises $0.20 to $0.30
redalert87: folds
jjjooo111: calls $0.20
*** FLOP *** [ ]
jjjooo111: checks
Graham0573: bets $0.40
jjjooo111: raises $1.80 to $2.20
Graham0573 said, "sigh"
Graham0573: folds
jjjooo111 collected $1.40 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $1.45 | Rake $0.05
Board [ ]
Seat 1: JustFun[est] folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Graham0573 (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 3: redalert87 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: jjjooo111 (big blind) collected ($1.40)
Seat 5: Miloho folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: netlob folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Why??

[TightEnd]

is the play noticeably different at say 0.25-0.5?


I think in hand 1 I'd call out of spite and see!

[Graham C]

It's shocking down here.  You raise with a decent hand from EP and everyone calls.  Cont bets don't work, if they are in, they are in.

Games much better at 0.25/0.50 as you're getting to a stage when the pot is worth something so people aren't as nonchalant about coming in with rubbish. 

I did call in the first one and he had 62o and went on to hit the full house.   He commented in the chat box that he finally won a hand, but I could only muster a "I can't believe you don't win more" reply.

[Bongo]

Surely you want people to play badly?

Also why are you raising with 67s when they will only call anyway and you'll have to hit a hand and take it to showdown to win?

[Graham C]

I raised purely because I was on the button and also because I hadn't raised preflop for a few orbits and thought I may get a bit of respect for some reason. 

It's not really the fact that I lost the pot that's the concern, it's the strange approach to the betting - what's he got that's enough to c/r with on the flop that can't see a turn card?  If I'm on a FD, surely betting out would be better, if I have Q high and he's on a FD, surely betting out or check/calling is better. What do you have to have to make an instant over bet like that?  He didn't even pause to think, it instant.

The first hand, fair play to him, he made a stupid bet and because I had an over pair, I fell for it.  I can't say it's bad play by him, it's more bad play by me I guess, but I can't understand what value he's getting long term by moving all in for a 0.70 pot. 

Crazy times is my concern, I just can't work out where I'm at.

Well, behind it seems.

[doubleup]

FWIW I'm always calling hand 1.  

I've never played these levels, but I would imagine that there is a strategy that will easily beat the game.  From your description multi-table short stacking would def work.  Otherwise overbetting big hands pre and playing drawing hands only in late position would also seem to be profitable tactics.  

[Longy]

I call the first one like you Silo, unlucky that he a funky 2 pair. You are ahead to a bare 6/air alot of the time. I would have raised pre for value.

Also why are you raising with 67s when they will only call anyway and you'll have to hit a hand and take it to showdown to win?

Interesting point Bongo this is such a default raise for me but im playing in different games to this, as two of the reasons im doing this is that my hand is disguised and i take the blinds a decent amount. As you say they always call and they don't care what you are repping.

Silo at these limits you are going to face some nasty varience, just value bet the donks to death and that means value betting thin.

[jakally]

I raised purely because I was on the button and also because I hadn't raised preflop for a few orbits and thought I may get a bit of respect for some reason. 

You already said that you were getting no respect for bets and raises - you can't have it both ways.

The first hand, fair play to him, he made a stupid bet and because I had an over pair, I fell for it.  I can't say it's bad play by him, it's more bad play by me I guess, but I can't understand what value he's getting long term by moving all in for a 0.70 pot. 

It's not as bad a play as it seems - he is short stacked and probably getting a call from any overpair, any 6, and maybe one or two other hands.
If he let's another card drop some of these may shut down.


Wait for your big hands PF, and 2 pr + on the flop and bet big for value. Avoid as many marginal spots as you can.

Raising PF is ok with non-premiums if you have position, but if you miss then mostly I wouldn't CB and would give it up there and then.

[kinboshi]

Playing at these levels (which is where I started, I'm now at the dizzy heights of .25/.50 and .5/1) you can build a bankroll.  I did, from £20. 

You have to play very tight, and very aggressive.  Multi-table, and play very rigid ABC.  Forget mixing your play up, it doesn't matter.  Forget c-bets, bluffs, any thoughts of the other players considering position, etc.

When you have a big starting hand, bet it big.  If you hit the flop, bet it big.  Subtlety is out of window.

[Graham C]

Okays, I'll get my head around things and take the advise on board. 

I'll do a challenge to build up from a small amount - say the same $20, that's playing 1c/2c?   I won't bother with updates cos it will be well boring.  Perhaps it will better me as a player.

I'm determined to do something right with regards to my poker career. Bankroll management isn't a strong point, if I have it, I'll play with it.

[LuckyLloyd]

Playing at these levels (which is where I started, I'm now at the dizzy heights of .25/.50 and .5/1) you can build a bankroll.  I did, from £20. 

You have to play very tight, and very aggressive.  Multi-table, and play very rigid ABC.  Forget mixing your play up, it doesn't matter.  Forget c-bets, bluffs, any thoughts of the other players considering position, etc.

When you have a big starting hand, bet it big.  If you hit the flop, bet it big.  Subtlety is out of window.

True. Though c - betting missed flops headsup is still absurdly profitable. When they call with any two suited or vaugely connecting cards (who am I kidding, any two!!) they miss flops more often than you do.

[jakally]

Playing at these levels (which is where I started, I'm now at the dizzy heights of .25/.50 and .5/1) you can build a bankroll.  I did, from £20. 

You have to play very tight, and very aggressive.  Multi-table, and play very rigid ABC.  Forget mixing your play up, it doesn't matter.  Forget c-bets, bluffs, any thoughts of the other players considering position, etc.

When you have a big starting hand, bet it big.  If you hit the flop, bet it big.  Subtlety is out of window.

True. Though c - betting missed flops headsup is still absurdly profitable. When they call with any two suited or vaugely connecting cards (who am I kidding, any two!!) they miss flops more often than you do.

The problem is at this level more often than not you will be multi way on the flop, and there aren't many safe flops given the range of hands people are likely to play.