Deep 2pr+draw hand. No PT.

[AlexMartin]

Just getting a mate to put the HH on 2+2 smallstakes (no PT on this computer) as i was unsure about this hand. Its the turn decision im worried about tbh, the preflop play was just because i thought villains were donk and deep and i call the flop 3b for obv reasons.

Villain has been tight this session, not really getting out of line. I have been trying to isolate the SB oop (with gay min raises ) purely because he's terrible and is why we are all so deep.

1/2nlhe

Hero-button,  - $900

Villain opens from cutoff to $7 (stack- $500). I call, as does SB (the table mark, $300).

Flop 

SB bets small ($8), Villain raises to $16, i raise to $46ish. Sb folds. Villain re-raises to $110. Hero calls?



Turn 

Villain bets just under pot, $180 odd into $230. Hero?

[GlasgowBandit]

Arrrrrghhhhhh I hate these spots probably should pass but I ain't.   

[boldie]

Arrrrrghhhhhh I hate these spots probably should pass but I ain't.   

Agreed..maybe I should but I just can' find a pass here. only hand I realistically expect him to have is a set or AK..which just outdrew you. but he'd never take you for the flush if you hit...so I call....depending on Villain i might also ship my chips in here. Re-raise to 400'ish...even (Which I am aware might be a very stupid move but sometimes I can't help myself)...i'll probably flatcall though.

[Longy]

How deep is villain Alex, as deep as us? We only get the sb stack in the OP

I take you call the flop as you don't believe shoving will get called by a worse hand (aa and ak).

Turn is crappy as we are beat by everything now apart from bluffs. Im going to have to fold and hate it as he isn't giving us odds to draw to out 8-11 outs and the times he is stone cold bluffing here are very small % wise.

Interesting to see what they say on 2p2.

[doubleup]

How deep is villain Alex, as deep as us? We only get the sb stack in the OP

I take you call the flop as you don't believe shoving will get called by a worse hand (aa and ak).

Turn is crappy as we are beat by everything now apart from bluffs. Im going to have to fold and hate it as he isn't giving us odds to draw to out 8-11 outs and the times he is stone cold bluffing here are very small % wise.

Interesting to see what they say on 2p2.

Just about what I was going to say - he is playing this insanely strong and I'd have to take him for AA that has now overtaken you or a flopped set.  The only draw he can have is 87, so its a fold for me as well.

[totalise]

i donno if the ace has improved his hand to one that beats you... dont most 1/2 players live a life adoring pot control? and consequently be more likely to just call with AA/AK? imo This is one of those theoretical spots where you know that he is going to fire 100% of his range on the turn, because either he has a set and wants to get money in the pot, or he has air and wants to continue his ludicrous bluff, so i think any decision you make on this hand should come on the flop... so if you call the flop, you get it in whatever the turn.

[GlasgowBandit]

How deep is villain Alex, as deep as us? We only get the sb stack in the OP

Hero-button,  - $900

Villain opens from cutoff to $7 (stack- $500).

[Sunday8pm]

The turn bet doesn't look like any hand that beats us here. Donkeys have a tendancy of betting big when they don't have it, and betting weak when they do have it.

$180 into $230 on a K65  A board doesn't look like AA, AK, 66 or 55 and i'm sure we can rule out KK. Looks much more like 56 or possibly even K5.

Please tell me you shipped the lot in Martin

[Sunday8pm]

The turn bet doesn't look like any hand that beats us here. Donkeys have a tendancy of betting big when they don't have it, and betting weak when they do have it.

$180 into $230 on a K65  A board doesn't look like AA, AK, 66 or 55 and i'm sure we can rule out KK. Looks much more like 56 or possibly even K5.

Please tell me you shipped the lot in Martin

Oh sorry this hand was against a quite tight player. Hmmm. I think we beat 56 more than we think. But i guess AA, AK, 66 or 55 are also possible. I think i get in here mostly.

FWIW i also pass pre...

[AlexMartin]

yeah, was an odd one because table dynamics really do alter a lot. FWIW i called turn bet, hit and stacked 666. But the guy said i played the hand terrible and its always a pass on the turn v a solid player..... not sure about that, but prolly right to fold in this spot.

[Simon Galloway]

Out of interest, how did the betting go on the river?  If he is always going to get himself stacked against a rivered flush, it makes it more tempting to take a little more the worst of it on the turn...

[doubleup]

Out of interest, how did the betting go on the river?  If he is always going to get himself stacked against a rivered flush, it makes it more tempting to take a little more the worst of it on the turn...

In this case you aren't getting odds to draw to a flush even if you stack him (altho knowing your king is good makes it about breakeven).

[Simon Galloway]

yes - there was an assumption that you are not always behind on the turn, but I was interested to find out if he paid the flush off or bet into it himself.

Implied odds are very subjective, its very easy to 'borrow' a bit to the 3/1 on your money to make calling a flush draw on the turn (esp. with some other possible outs) but then all that implied value disappears (or not) if you don't get a penny out of them on the end when you hit.

[AlexMartin]

he moved in on the river for his last 120ish, coz he correctly assumed that hearts are rarely part of my range, yet a worse made hand that will pay off a shove is pretty likely.