Set on co-ordinated board...

[MC]

$25+2 18man SNG on PokerStars

1st level, pretty much the first hand I think, have not encountered this player before.

Fistpump call, relucta-call, can we fold?

PokerStars Game #33859663551: Tournament #202537569, $25+$2 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2009/10/10 14:39:34 WET [2009/10/10 9:39:34 ET]
Table '202537569 1' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: marzipan21 (1440 in chips)
Seat 2: newcomer1975 (1490 in chips)
Seat 3: euwofex (1750 in chips)
Seat 4: zackytr (1220 in chips)
Seat 5: pokerMJ (1500 in chips)
Seat 6: FCT_Tukker (1470 in chips)
Seat 7: DutchMart (1480 in chips)
Seat 8: epitomised (1480 in chips)
Seat 9: Load (1670 in chips)
DutchMart: posts small blind 10
epitomised: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to epitomised [ ]
Load: folds
marzipan21: calls 20
newcomer1975: folds
euwofex: folds
zackytr: folds
pokerMJ: folds
FCT_Tukker: folds
DutchMart: folds
epitomised: checks
*** FLOP *** [ ]
epitomised: bets 40
marzipan21: calls 40
*** TURN *** [ ] []
epitomised: bets 120
marzipan21: raises 1260 to 1380 and is all-in
epitomised: ..............

[Longy]

Ugh, given he is totally unknown I call here and expect him to show quite a few two pair hands as well as other rubbish. If he had a stronger hand, why would he shove here?

[MC]

Ugh, given he is totally unknown I call here and expect him to show quite a few two pair hands as well as other rubbish. If he had a stronger hand, why would he shove here?

Yeah this was my thinking too, some kind of hand involving the bare Q of hearts seemed possible as well.

[NoflopsHomer]

Standard fistpump.

[Rupert]

Standard fistpump.

ya this.  also i'd probs raise pre.  lots of worse pairs trying to setmine

[poonjoe]

MC I assume you checked your option in order to keep the pot small and avoid losing your whole stack on the wrong board?

This is the wrong board!

Calling this shove on the turn is gambling that he doesn't have the JQ, the flush, or a KK/AA/TT he limped in with. OK so often he will have the combo draw or an even worse hand, but why risk yr tournament on it?

[MC]

Checking pre is pretty standard I think. First couple of levels are all about being nitty and passive. I'd raise TT+, AQs+, AK+ and that's about it.

Agree with what you're saying poon. It kinda sucks that it's an unknown, cos this could easily be JQ or a flush (tbh higher set I think is v.unlikely), but then again he could be a fish with a black A2.

What sucks is we have to be right a high percentage of a time.

[marcin123]

Don't think i'm folding here...

[MC]

Yeah, I thought long and hard and decided I couldn't fold

Villain had

We binked quads on the river, wiiiiii

[Rupert]

ya i mean T6s come on, gotta raise pre

[bolt pp]

Standard fistpump.

[salfi]

18 mans unknown villain overbetting here usually has either a flush he dont want out drawing or the st8 with a heart and just wants to excersize his right to semi bluff. cant think of too many times ive seen 2pair here as donks jst always tend do flat  turn  .     he didnt have the betting lead and takes it of u(very very brave or very very stupid with you bettin flop and turn). ive seen the reveal now but i would amost always fold here from my sample at the 18mans at higher mid stakes its not a spot to spaz out without a made flush by donks in general(decent regs never play a hand this way)so weve already identifed him of a bit of a fish when he ships on the turn . if he called the flop he just aint gunner spaz after he has floated when u bet the flush card on the turn  without a flush as donks tend be to concerned that u might have it if they havnt(this is key here i think as he dont care what uve got his hand screams of flooooosh )..  with no hands on the villain ide be very surprised if he just tryin to take such a small pot without a flush if blinds are higher then people try to steel them pots in this type of spot with combi draws . i mean most of ya range for bettin this pot in a limped pot include more flush draws then anything else on the flop . im actually surprised u dont let go of ya hand here as i think u have a bluff catcher when the donk has played this way . i mean i very rarely see a donk with a combi draw shipping the turn.  i just cant see how u gettin the right price here at all in a vacuum folding is deffo better esp cause ya end game seamed very strong from when i have encounted you mr epitomised.
ide snap only if he has a rediculosly hi vpip percentage. FOLD  in future imo (unless u feel the quad card on route to the river then its obviosly a fist pump on feel alone)

[salfi]

limps 10 6 smashes the flop as bout as hard equity wise as u can with 10 6 and dont raise the flop insted catches his card then value towns the turn      lol
people who say call dont play these games enough imo . is hard folding against donks but they spew in better places then this in general

[poonjoe]

18 mans unknown villain overbetting here usually has either a flush he dont want out drawing or the st8 with a heart and just wants to excersize his right to semi bluff. cant think of too many times ive seen 2pair here as donks jst always tend do flat  turn  .     he didnt have the betting lead and takes it of u(very very brave or very very stupid with you bettin flop and turn). ive seen the reveal now but i would amost always fold here from my sample at the 18mans at higher mid stakes its not a spot to spaz out without a made flush by donks in general(decent regs never play a hand this way)so weve already identifed him of a bit of a fish when he ships on the turn . if he called the flop he just aint gunner spaz after he has floated when u bet the flush card on the turn  without a flush as donks tend be to concerned that u might have it if they havnt(this is key here i think as he dont care what uve got his hand screams of flooooosh )..  with no hands on the villain ide be very surprised if he just tryin to take such a small pot without a flush if blinds are higher then people try to steel them pots in this type of spot with combi draws . i mean most of ya range for bettin this pot in a limped pot include more flush draws then anything else on the flop . im actually surprised u dont let go of ya hand here as i think u have a bluff catcher when the donk has played this way . i mean i very rarely see a donk with a combi draw shipping the turn.  i just cant see how u gettin the right price here at all in a vacuum folding is deffo better esp cause ya end game seamed very strong from when i have encounted you mr epitomised.
ide snap only if he has a rediculosly hi vpip percentage. FOLD  in future imo (unless u feel the quad card on route to the river then its obviosly a fist pump on feel alone)

so right

[MC]

18 mans unknown villain overbetting here usually has either a flush he dont want out drawing or the st8 with a heart and just wants to excersize his right to semi bluff. cant think of too many times ive seen 2pair here as donks jst always tend do flat  turn  .     he didnt have the betting lead and takes it of u(very very brave or very very stupid with you bettin flop and turn). ive seen the reveal now but i would amost always fold here from my sample at the 18mans at higher mid stakes its not a spot to spaz out without a made flush by donks in general(decent regs never play a hand this way)so weve already identifed him of a bit of a fish when he ships on the turn . if he called the flop he just aint gunner spaz after he has floated when u bet the flush card on the turn  without a flush as donks tend be to concerned that u might have it if they havnt(this is key here i think as he dont care what uve got his hand screams of flooooosh )..  with no hands on the villain ide be very surprised if he just tryin to take such a small pot without a flush if blinds are higher then people try to steel them pots in this type of spot with combi draws . i mean most of ya range for bettin this pot in a limped pot include more flush draws then anything else on the flop . im actually surprised u dont let go of ya hand here as i think u have a bluff catcher when the donk has played this way . i mean i very rarely see a donk with a combi draw shipping the turn.  i just cant see how u gettin the right price here at all in a vacuum folding is deffo better esp cause ya end game seamed very strong from when i have encounted you mr epitomised.
ide snap only if he has a rediculosly hi vpip percentage. FOLD  in future imo (unless u feel the quad card on route to the river then its obviosly a fist pump on feel alone)

Really appreciate your thoughts on these things dude, ty