Line check

[outragous76]

what I would say is that the villain makes a lovely leverage bet on the turn where we are commited and he can fold any bluffs , get in huge draws and hands that  already beat us

Why could we not float the Turn?

Assuming we dont have a hand with value?

So, his lovely bet folds out the bottom of our range. What else does it achieve?

V bets his monsters
keeps him in cheap for his draws
whilst all at the same time keeping his range open??

[PaintingByNumbers]

V bets his monsters

A Bet sized at 25% of the Pot (rough estimate, as I can't read the hh v easily) doesn't seem to get much value to me.

keeps him in cheap for his draws

Really? A check is even cheaper.

whilst all at the same time keeping his range open?

Has his Check/Call on the Flop not already closed his range?

[outragous76]

V bets his monsters

A Bet sized at 25% of the Pot (rough estimate, as I can't read the hh v easily) doesn't seem to get much value to me.

keeps him in cheap for his draws

Really? A check is even cheaper.

whilst all at the same time keeping his range open?

Has his Check/Call on the Flop not already closed his range?

1. It does when we pay him on the river too
2. Yes but limits him getting paid
3. Nope but pls let me know what cards he has if you think so, I accepted he might c/r his draws but we have no info on tendencies so let's no assume that

[EvilPie]

How did this thread ever get beyond this?

Looks good to me

[PaintingByNumbers]

1. It does when we pay him on the river too
2. Yes but limits him getting paid
3. Nope but pls let me know what cards he has if you think so, I accepted he might c/r his draws but we have no info on tendencies so let's no assume that

1. It's a wet board, I (in his position) would rather get paid now.
2. He knows he is going to hit?
3. I think that a Ch/C on the Flop implies that he has a medium strength hand: FDs(that he didnt want to get in on the flop), Kings, Queens, Gutshots, Nines.

If he has better than this, why would he not want to take an aggressive action (Donk or Ch/R) OOP on a wet flop?

[PaintingByNumbers]

How did this thread ever get beyond this?

Looks good to me

That would be because I and others (HoneyBadger, pleno etc) don't think it does and were/are looking for reasons as to why we are wrong.

[MC]

Yowzer @ this thread, lol.

Don't think it's that complicated a spot. Looking back I think the line I took is fine. Raising the turn is perhaps also a reasonable option.

MC

I def think that results would be welcomed in this hand, got nothing to do with being results oriented but adds weight to what people do with what hands and why

cheers

Villain had JTos, FML.

[outragous76]

Yowzer @ this thread, lol.

Don't think it's that complicated a spot. Looking back I think the line I took is fine. Raising the turn is perhaps also a reasonable option.

MC

I def think that results would be welcomed in this hand, got nothing to do with being results oriented but adds weight to what people do with what hands and why

cheers

Villain had JTos, FML.

def fold pre he's gonna flop you dead 

[SuuPRlim]

whenever I'm in a spot where I have no choise but to stack off to the top of his range (this is without question one of those spots) I prefer to try take a line that maximises value vs the bottom 75% of his range.

As the two clear options here are to call and bluff catch the turn or to jam the turn for value I'd lean strongly towards jamming the turn purely because I can't see any true air in our opponents range at all.

Lets Punish bad draws and worse K's and not worry about sets, 2p's or JT because we have no option but to go broke vs them at some point in the hand anyways, I think flatitng the turn relieves pressure of the weaker parts of his range which isn't the optimal way to play here imo