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Author Topic: Alien spot vs maniac villain (200nl)  (Read 3731 times)
Mondeoman
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« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2012, 11:20:13 PM »

He has kq about 98% of the time here
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Nit Tendencies
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Is this some kind of hilarious practical joke?


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« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2012, 11:24:30 PM »

Sick post Stu, really sick.
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Is this some kind of hilarious practical joke?
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« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2012, 12:20:39 AM »

Agree with most of stus post.

Only thing I disagree with is how flvillain reacts to cold 4bers rather than normal 4ets which I think he will react almost identically to, perhaps even more aggro to the cold 4bet.

Also agree with mondeoman that e probably has a really butted range ott, people are really stupid and of they have ac and pair they bet 132 and call but when they are butted they jam.
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Worst playcalling I have ever seen. Bunch of  fucking jokers . Run the bloody ball. 18 rushes all game? You have to be kidding me. Fuck off lol
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« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2012, 12:49:28 AM »

Only thing I disagree with is how flvillain reacts to cold 4bers rather than normal 4ets which I think he will react almost identically to, perhaps even more aggro to the cold 4bet

He shouldn't. And he appears to be competent preflop, so I'd imagine that he wouldn't. But it's not a big deal ofc.

Also agree with mondeoman that e probably has a really butted range ott, people are really stupid and of they have ac and pair they bet 132 and call but when they are butted they jam.

Is this a population read on 200NL players? I don't agree with it, but again no biggy. There is no other meaningful bet size but a jam surely? Although I get the point that some villains might bet almost all-in rather than jamming with their weak hands or draws because they think it somehow looks stronger.

Sick post Stu, really sick.

Thanks Jamie.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 01:12:44 AM by Honeybadger » Logged
cambridgealex
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« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2012, 01:13:32 AM »

He's by no means competent preflop. Way way way too spewy, it was so easy to play against him - just lose a few bbs whilst waiting for a  decent pair, AJ+ and then he just takes off. Got it in so many times vs him when he just went crazy with Ax, J9, 66, 33 etc.
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Honeybadger
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« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2012, 01:48:19 AM »

It depends on how you define competent. You wrote a really good description of the dynamic between the two of you:

At the start of the day, I adjusted to his high 3b % by 4betting wider for value and more often as a bluff. He was himself 4betting so much that I started 3b/5b small pairs, but he adjusted by 4b/calling AJ, 77 etc so at this point I've readjusted by 4b/calling wide and never 5b bluffing. I think he'd cottoned on to the fact that I wasn't 4bet folding anymore so perhaps this explains why he peeled in this hand.

I think this suggests that villain is somewhat competent. He is making adjustments to your play, and then adjusting further to your adjustments. This is extremely rare in poor players, and is usually a sign that an opponent is actually thinking about his lines. Now you may believe that he is not always reaching the right conclusions with his thoughts, that he is overly spewy etc. And you may well be right. But we are none of us superstars. Perhaps he sees you in the same sort of way; as an opponent who is getting out of line, 3betting/4betting too frequently. He might feel that some of the hands in which he jammed light and you called and won were actually coolers given the dynamic between the two of you. And he might even be right in this.

When you get involved in highly aggressive preflop battles it is really difficult to work out the difference between correctly applied aggression and spew. And often there is actually not a great deal of difference. For example, the maths of 5bet jamming a rag Ace 100bbs deep is surprisingly forgiving in aggressive dynamics. You don't need a huge amount of fold equity given that you have ~30% pot equity when called (do the maths if you haven't already, it is super simple). You probably know all this of course. I am mentioning it just to make the point that whilst you may very well be right about this opponent (and I am not arguing with your judgement), there is always a reasonable chance that you have under-estimated his level of skill and over-estimated his level of spewiness.

Obviously no-one can judge better than you where the truth lies since you are the one present in the moment and thus are able to feel the minutiae of gameflow. But just remember that it is always easy to be fooled in these sort of spots, so you really do need to play devil's advocate with yourself and constantly run sanity checks. Perhaps you have just been 'lucky' to have more than your fair share of decent hands when he has chosen to 5bet jam on you? And so his jams seem spewy because they don't get through as often as they 'should'. I am not saying this is the case obviously... well, you know what I am saying I hope.

It is hard to properly appreciate gameflow/dynamics unless present in the moment. However, when present in the moment it is often equally difficult to take a truly objective and non-results orientated view of a situation.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 01:56:06 AM by Honeybadger » Logged
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« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2012, 02:04:55 AM »

REALLY good post. Couldn't disagree with a word of it. Thanks.
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Honeybadger
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« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2012, 03:20:56 AM »

You are welcome Alex, and thanks for the nice compliment.

I'd like to mention the reverse situation, partly for the sake of completeness and partly to make a point about the poker mindset.

If you regularly get involved in aggressive battles with regs you will often find yourself in situations where things seem to go the other way. Every time you 3bet light he seems to 4bet, forcing you to fold. Every time you 4bet bluff, he 5bet jams. And of course whenever you have a value hand he never gives you action. It feels like you are getting outplayed, getting run over. And then, of course, when you decide to 5bet jam on him with the A5s or the 44 he turns up with the AJ or the TT.

It is at these times when it is essential to be able to take a truly objective view of the situation. Sometimes you really are being outplayed and outmanoeuvred and you need to either sharpen up or get out of the spot you are in. Other times, you are just at the wrong end of variance and are being coolered. Sometimes you are spewing your tits off, other times you are being appropriately aggressive but just keep running into the top of ranges.

The thing is... it is super difficult to work out which is which when losing. And to some extent even more difficult when winning. Hubris makes you want to believe that you are just getting unlucky when you are actually getting run-over or outplayed. Hubris also makes you want to believe you are outplaying an opponent when actually you are just running well against him. We are all ego driven, and all secretly think we are better than we actually are.

The trick is to have a defense against hubris. When you are winning in a game, keep reminding yourself that most likely at least some of this is down to run good, and it is not all down to your amazing poker skills. When you are losing, use this as a motivator to sharpen up your play rather than just attributing it all to bad luck.

A logical extension of this is that you should try to give your opponents more respect than they perhaps deserve. It is so easy just to think "He is terrible, I have a massive edge on him". Sometimes this will be right, but it's not like your edge is increased by thinking this way. Yet when you are wrong, and your opponent is not quite as bad as you think he is, you run the risk that complacency and ego will turn a positive expected edge into a negative one.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 03:30:58 AM by Honeybadger » Logged
skolsuper
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« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2012, 04:10:41 AM »

Stu dropping some serious wisdom bombs itt
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SuuPRlim
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« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2012, 05:19:57 PM »

Does all this happen on 3rd or 4th street Stu?
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GreekStein
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« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2012, 07:10:49 PM »

Sorry to derail thread, but can i just ask how you have stats? do you type them/record in or is it just a guess?


one of my favourite ever PHA posts.
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