Live Hand Last Night £1 £1 pot limit (Ricoh Coventry)

[kinboshi]

arrr yh you're right sorry i wouldn't have posted it if had remembered that I thought you'd posted it on here!

Anyways it was really good, PLO specific certainly, but i thought the example was highly applicable to this spot pre-flop when explaining about why 88 is a great hand to have in a multi-way pot.

Definitely useful having you and Stu discuss stuff like this on here. Much appreciated.

[SuuPRlim]

I understand, my figures initially were rough estimates because I did have a little bit behind more than 1£ but I understand your theory in calling and not pushing in this situation.

The whole hand makes for a decent debate, I know I played the turn bad and then the river I was just hoping for a brick. I have been a member here for sometime but was more a reader than a poster, but the reception has been very good and there is loads of good advice and experience to draw off.

Thank again to all who commented!

I don't think you played the turn badly at all - I wouldn't have played turn/river like this but chk/call then lead river I actually quite like the line, river as played i have a feeling checking is slightly better than betting (stack sizes we're a bit hazy on) but I thinking betting is a good play too.

I just think personally chk/raising the flop is a better play than check calling that's really the only part of the hand I didn't like too much but it's certainly not a bad play and I think a lot of people would have chk/called.

Keep posting, good threads have come from the seemingly trivial hands before.

[Donk23]

I understand, my figures initially were rough estimates because I did have a little bit behind more than 1£ but I understand your theory in calling and not pushing in this situation.

The whole hand makes for a decent debate, I know I played the turn bad and then the river I was just hoping for a brick. I have been a member here for sometime but was more a reader than a poster, but the reception has been very good and there is loads of good advice and experience to draw off.

Thank again to all who commented!

I don't think you played the turn badly at all - I wouldn't have played turn/river like this but chk/call then lead river I actually quite like the line, river as played i have a feeling checking is slightly better than betting (stack sizes we're a bit hazy on) but I thinking betting is a good play too.

I just think personally chk/raising the flop is a better play than check calling that's really the only part of the hand I didn't like too much but it's certainly not a bad play and I think a lot of people would have chk/called.

Keep posting, good threads have come from the seemingly trivial hands before.

learnt a fair bit from the discussion since my post!

apart from grasping the initative in the hand from a re raise on the flop, what would be your others reasons for doing so? also if we were to re-raise, how would we respond to a 3bet out of position with effective stack sizes?

[SuuPRlim]

apart from grasping the initative in the hand from a re raise on the flop, what would be your others reasons for doing so? also if we were to re-raise, how would we respond to a 3bet out of position with effective stack sizes?

For me personally I like to c/r the flop with the intention of betting turn and river on a high % of run outs, cards i'd avoid barrelling are J's and Q's generally speaking this sort of board is going to hit our range pretty well and with a strong draw, some equity and 2 blockers to the two straights I think it's a really good spot to take off.

My other reason for preferring to c/r over c/c the flop (there is nothing too much wrong with c/c btw) is that i think we leave ourselves venerable to getting outplayed with a c.c, by outplayed i mean he's going to be able to bet for value very easily and effectively and we'll be calling because we have a pair and an OESD he'll be able to pot control with his weaker hands and realise his equity - hands like KQ/KJ etc (by realise his equity I mean, if KJ has say 25% vs us on the flop, we'll let him see the turn and the river and 1 in 4 times he'll win the pot off us when we flopped such a strong hand, not only will we lose the pot, but we've not charged him a penny for outdrawing us and he will likely be able to value bet with his better hand when he makes it) and also he'll be able to bluff and semi-bluff against us and make us make a difficult decision at some point in the hand.

I think it's really important at the bottom of your strategy to always be thinking about how to make yourself as tough to play as possible, this is simple in theory - just try and make your opponent make MORE difficult and challenging decisions than you, I always say if you constantly MAKE people make decisions sooner rather than later even good players are going to make mistakes.

Respond to a flop 3bet I'm not 100% sure on the stack sizes so I'm not quite sure lol, i'd expect to get re-raised OTF so very infrequently though as it's a board which hits your range pretty hard

[pleno1]

wtf 4 pages? seriously? most clear call ever? hes not raising worse hands for value.. hes probably bluffing, were chopping a lot whne hes not bluffing.

call.

/thread

[Donk23]

what would your preferred line be in this hand though Pleno? and what do you make of the thought process behind Hero's line in this hand?

[chelseaboy]

wtf 4 pages? seriously? most clear call ever? hes not raising worse hands for value.. hes probably bluffing, were chopping a lot whne hes not bluffing.

call.

/thread

My Fault asking to many questions

[Mehtab]

Its non stnd for sure and it's prolly not a line i'd have taken (I think i'd have c/r the flop) but I actually quite like the river lead (once we get to the river that is) I think with a 4 card straight on board he's very likely to chk/back any hand that can win at showdown, and he'll have made a king some % as well and he's defo chking that back imo, it's going to be a bad call from him but it's one at small stakes live cash id expect them to make quite a bit with a bunch of 1p hands.

I also really like the sizing, it's going to price him in with a lot of weak hands and you leave him plenty of room to bluff (as he did) even though i'd not expect him to do this all that often by betting 60 and not 90 you leave him the option.

For me personally I like to c/r the flop with the intention of betting turn and river on a high % of run outs, cards i'd avoid barrelling are J's and Q's generally speaking this sort of board is going to hit our range pretty well and with a strong draw, some equity and 2 blockers to the two straights I think it's a really good spot to take off.

My other reason for preferring to c/r over c/c the flop (there is nothing too much wrong with c/c btw) is that i think we leave ourselves venerable to getting outplayed with a c.c, by outplayed i mean he's going to be able to bet for value very easily and effectively and we'll be calling because we have a pair and an OESD he'll be able to pot control with his weaker hands and realise his equity - hands like KQ/KJ etc (by realise his equity I mean, if KJ has say 25% vs us on the flop, we'll let him see the turn and the river and 1 in 4 times he'll win the pot off us when we flopped such a strong hand, not only will we lose the pot, but we've not charged him a penny for outdrawing us and he will likely be able to value bet with his better hand when he makes it) and also he'll be able to bluff and semi-bluff against us and make us make a difficult decision at some point in the hand.

I think it's really important at the bottom of your strategy to always be thinking about how to make yourself as tough to play as possible, this is simple in theory - just try and make your opponent make MORE difficult and challenging decisions than you, I always say if you constantly MAKE people make decisions sooner rather than later even good players are going to make mistakes.

R.E Pre-flop, i don't disagree with Aaron, I think 3betting is abso fine and would defo do it myself from time to time, I think just calling is the stnd play because the pot will go multi-way very often and our hand plays extremely strongly in multi-way pots because when he hit (flop a set basically) our hand is so, so strong and we want as many people in the pot with a chance to put money in the pot. One point I will make on 3betting though is that we really need to be in a position where we can 5bet jam IF we are going to 3bet, as 3bet folding really is not a great play - I just played a hand yday where I randomly 3bet 77 for not really any reason and had to fold to a 4bet 110bb deep I felt like a huge tool. To be able to 5bet we need to have some sort of read or feeling for how our opponent is playing - usually if he's very very aggressive pre-flop (lots of 3 and 4 betting) then we can prolly find a really easy 3bet - with a plan 5bet profitably. I think if we don't this then just flatting the open is prolly the better play.

Probably about as spot on an analysis as you're likely to find on here.

[SuuPRlim]

wtf 4 pages? seriously? most clear call ever? hes not raising worse hands for value.. hes probably bluffing, were chopping a lot whne hes not bluffing.

call.

/thread

My Fault asking to many questions

Not your fault at all, Pleno  just being grumpy

Patrick what would you do on this flop, and why?