Live Hand Last Night £1 £1 pot limit (Ricoh Coventry)

[chelseaboy]

Brief background on the hand, id been sitting for approx 4 hours bought in for 100 and sat with about 225 we were playing 6 handed where 3 players clearly knew each other very well. 1 of these lads was a yound lad you had re bought in for 160 twice after having AA cracked by a gut shot and top set crushed by a rivered flush.

This 1 hand played out like this,

I am on the BB and have 

folds round to the button who is the young lad who is now sat with approx 500 after doubling up with KK against Q10

He raises to 8

SB and I both call

Flop is  (pot is 24)

SB checks, I check and the button makes it £16.

Sb folds I flat call.

Turn comes a  (pot is 56)

I check again and the he bets out £35

I flat call again.

River comes  (pot is 126)

I bet out £60 he re Raises £165

Pass? Push for what I have left? or Fold with the 2nd Nuts?

[Pugwashed]

Call. He is never raising worse for value on the river so shoving never gets called by worse and he isn't folding a chop. Its hard for him to have T8, especially when you have blockers

[cambridgealex]

Call. He is never raising worse for value on the river so shoving never gets called by worse and he isn't folding a chop. Its hard for him to have T8, especially when you have blockers

[kinboshi]

You're sat with 225 before the start of the hand? You're looking to get your entire stack in on this board,and if he's somehow got T8 then it's a cooler. His range is far wider than that and you'll be winning more often than not.

With the size of the betting it's perfect for you to get it all in now.

[chelseaboy]

I flat called his 165 so 105 more to me...

At this point I say do you have it to the 10....

I show my 88 he mucks his cards and storms off for 5 minutes.

On his return I get asked how I can possibly call for an extra 105 almost all my stack when it was clear he had 10 8.

I asked why he mucked if he had 10 8!!

Just thought id post it here and see what the professionals thought

[muckthenuts]

How much do you have left behind if you call? If it's a small amount compared to the pot just shove cos it's live cash, your opponent will sigh flick it in if he's got anything at all.

[pleno1]

meh makes pot bigger ie more rake right?

just call. info+he super polarized.

[celtic]

meh makes pot bigger ie more rake right?

just call. info+he super polarized.

Rake should be capped. Jamming shouldn't affect the rake. In fact, at the Ricoh, if it's a chop, there is prob no rake.

[cambridgealex]

Sat him down

[aaron1867]

easy call.

But apart from calling river, you play so bad. Why no 3 bet, pre?

[cambridgealex]

easy call.

But apart from calling river, you play so bad. Why no 3 bet, pre?

this is wrong. hand is played very standard.

[aaron1867]

easy call.

But apart from calling river, you play so bad. Why no 3 bet, pre?

this is wrong. hand is played very standard.

It's not really wrong, why are we not 3 betting pre?

We seem to be focusing on the wrong things sometimes in PHA's.

[rfgqqabc]

easy call.

But apart from calling river, you play so bad. Why no 3 bet, pre?

this is wrong. hand is played very standard.

It's not really wrong, why are we not 3 betting pre?

We seem to be focusing on the wrong things sometimes in PHA's.

Reasons to 3bet: Fold out better (never), Value (Somewhat)

Reasons to flat: Never get 4bet off our hand, setmining, keeping stack to pot ratio smaller allowing people to make bigger and more costly mistakes.

Would rather squeeze K7s then a pocket pair that plays beautifully postflop in this spot.

[cambridgealex]

easy call.

But apart from calling river, you play so bad. Why no 3 bet, pre?

this is wrong. hand is played very standard.

It's not really wrong, why are we not 3 betting pre?

We seem to be focusing on the wrong things sometimes in PHA's.

I agree perhaps we are focussing on the wrong thing in this hand. Because the river call once you've bet is totally trivial. The bet in the first place is the thing that could be discussed.

Chelsea boy, why did you lead the river when he had the betting lead? (What I mean by this is since you were the one checking and calling until the river, we say he has the "betting lead" or "initiative" and most poker hands play in flow where the person with the initiative is mostly checked to until the initiative switches with a raise).

We always want a reason for betting. Why are we betting rather than checking? You might have an excellent reason, for example, you had a read that he would try and bluff you if you bet, or you thought he'd check back two pair or a set on the river. But if you don't have a reason then it's probably a bad bet.

Regarding preflop, don't get me wrong, it's not bad to 3bet 88 here. But calling is definitely more standard and a better play generally for mainly the reasons Adam gave above plus quite a few others.

[Pugwashed]

easy call.

But apart from calling river, you play so bad. Why no 3 bet, pre?

this is wrong. hand is played very standard.

It's not really wrong, why are we not 3 betting pre?

We seem to be focusing on the wrong things sometimes in PHA's.

Vs someone who likes to 4bet a lot, then 3betting to 5bet jam might be pretty reasonable with 88 here (probably a reasonable spot to squeeze so 88 is a pretty reasonable hand to include in a spot where you might wanna widen your value range) but probably not the best as a standard for £1/£1 live games. With some reads or with some dynamic 3betting might be better