Rankings changes

[GURNFISH]

The people that do the rankings are not breaking the rules that lay down so tough.

That will be the stance of the majority on here if they are conssistent.

[Ironside]

so the euro rankings should read

" european poker rankings where wheelchair users start at a disadvantage" because i thought poker was a sport that anyone could play on an equal footing yet the only ranking system in europe has an unfair disadvantage to wheelchair users

his arguement on smoking doesnt hang fire as health and safety wont shut a casino down for people smoking but health and safety WILL close a casino down if they start lifting people up and down stairs in an unsafe manner with no insurance.

if casino found they never got ranking points and the locals got upset then GREAT thats what I want so that the casinos get access put in (there are plenty of ways of doing it but some are as pleasing to the eyes as others)
stair climbers are used to get wheelchair users on and off smaller airplanes and could easy be adapted for most staircases so there is no excuses

and just remember abled bodies people today are tomorrows wheelchairs users just waiting to happen espically with more and more people living longer and longer

[The Baron]

I hear you mate, and I agree. I just cant see him pissing one group off to aid another.

[Ironside]

If we were to exclude casinos that did not have adequate wheel chair access this would mean that I would be responsible for inspecting all the casinos in Europe to see if the complied. This is a job I am not qualified for, and so would have to employee someone who was. This would have to be done on an on going basis to ensure that casinos continued to comply. This is cost that would be too prohibitive.

basically thats is summed up by i cant be bothered because all that he needs to do before listing a comp as a ranking event is phone up say "hi i am a wheelchair user and wish to play some poker will there be any problems" simple answer will come back i normally do this myself before going to a casino and havent been told a lie by anyone yet

[Ironside]

oh if john cant afford to employ someone to do this i will do it free of charge for him now there is no reason why it can be done

[Ironside]

btw its a good job i am a fish at poker cause if i ever got interviewed by a tv crew after a ranking event i wouldnt hold back

[Newmanseye]

Ironside, I think there is a case here for discrimination, Having had 2 family members that have been confined to wheelchairs I can relate to the challenges you face. How can you be expected to compete on a fair and equal level as the other players when you cannot participate in all of the events.

I am not saying go all out on a crusade, I'm sure you have better things to do with your time, I just find it appauling that casinos cannot provide facilities for customers who have a physical disability.

At least in cincins you have the tables upstairs and down, where everyone can enjoy the facilities.

I have said my piece.

[thetank]

 all that he needs to do before listing a comp as a ranking event is phone up say "hi i am a wheelchair user and wish to play some poker will there be any problems" simple answer will come back i normally do this myself before going to a casino and havent been told a lie by anyone yet

This might create a different problem. Venues keen not to lose their ranking status might cotton on to how their wheelchair access is tested and start telling porkies over the phone. 
If this happened, they might get away with it for a while if no wheelchair users choose to visit, but when one does, they're going to have turned up for nothing.
It might not be that John Shoreman couldn't be bothered, rather he doesn't want to potentially give out false information.  Irate wheelchair users who have travelled to an event in a foreign country but denied access might turn their ire towards him and rightly so, after all he would have vouched for it being a wheelchair friendly venue by allowing the status. I understand why he couldn't do this.
There must be another solution though.

Perhaps a letter could be sent by Mr. Shoreman to all casinos/card rooms in Europe that currently hold ranking events. It could inform them that if, after 2006, they are found to be lacking in the disabled access department then their ranking status could be revoked. If he sent everyone letters he might help institute change in a small way. He has the power to do encourage change and it would be a shame in he didn't use it.

He said to you...

Whilst I have every sympathy with your situation, I do not think the European Rankings should exclude casinos on the grounds that you give. If there is anything I can do to help wheel chair users get better access to casinos (without removing their ranking status, which I don’t think would motivate them enough to do anything anyway) I would be happy to discuss this with you.

The letters themselves wouldn't be removing their ranking status, just saying that it is a possibility.
Not sure if the letters would do much good, but it's better than doing nowt.
Maybe suggesting this to Mr. Shoreman, perhaps even offering to draft the letter and pay for the postage. I don't see how he could refuse this.

[thetank]

If he takes non wheelchair access casinos out of the rankings system he's likely to just piss off a different group. (ie able bodied locals/regulars to those casinos)

These able bodied regulars anger would be better directed at the casino in question for not providing wheelchair access. I can imagine an event that didn't provide ladies toilet facilities being denied ranking status creating a bit of a stir. I don't think the regulars would be upset at the ranking administration if this were the case. They would/should instead be annoyed that their card room don't provide facilities for girlies. Why should events that don't provide wheelchair access be any different?

As Ironside says Poker should be a competition where able bodied and disabled people can compete on a level playing field.

[thetank]

I feel a blonde petition coming on....

I don't think any petition should be directed at Jon Shoreman. You want to work with him, not against him.

Perhaps a copy of the petition could be drawn up and sent in the letters to the casinos. (mentioned above)

Somethng along the lines of....

From 1st December 2007, The following poker players refuse to play in any event held in a venue that does not provide adequate facilities for wheelchair users.

I'd sign that. Giving a date in the future might encourage some bigger names in the poker world to sign also. It gives offending venues a chance to mend their ways.

Just remember to ask them nicely. Getting a few big names to sign would encorage others to aswell. They might even choose to make a big deal about it, "I'm going to win try to the European rankings in 2008 with the same chance as a disabled person. Why don't you do the same?" Get a couple to sign on and a lot of others might follow.

[thetank]

Also "Tournaments which do not have dealers for all tables will not qualify as ranking events. (introduced 2006)"

Anyone have any thoughts on how many uk events will be knocked out?

None, if they get in dealers for the week.

(Perhaps it's these casinos that mn should be contacting to promote his buisness instead of random spam)

[Newmanseye]

our Tank loves to post.!!!