PLO hand

[Ironside]

PokerStars Game #5870152031: Tournament #29397986, $20+$2 Omaha Pot Limit - Level XIII (1000/2000) - 2006/08/10 - 20:19:27 (ET)
Table '29397986 9' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 2: xxCelticFCxx (89206 in chips)
Seat 4: SCRUFFDOG (32498 in chips)
Seat 5: pokerboy410 (11475 in chips)
Seat 7: PimPfisH3 (6586 in chips)
Seat 9: Ironside (95735 in chips)
PimPfisH3: posts small blind 1000
Ironside: posts big blind 2000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ironside [ Ah ]
xxCelticFCxx: raises 5000 to 7000
SCRUFFDOG: calls 7000
pokerboy410: folds
PimPfisH3: folds
Ironside: raises 22000 to 29000
xxCelticFCxx: calls 22000
SCRUFFDOG: raises 3498 to 32498 and is all-in
Ironside: calls 3498
xxCelticFCxx: calls 3498
*** FLOP *** [ ]
Ironside: checks
xxCelticFCxx: bets 22000
Ironside: folds
Ironside said, "wtf Ah"
Ironside said, "arggggggggggggggg"
*** TURN *** [ ] []
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
*** SHOW DOWN ***
xxCelticFCxx: shows [ ] (a pair of Kings)
SCRUFFDOG: shows [ ] (a pair of Kings)
Ironside said, "****"
xxCelticFCxx collected 49247 from pot
SCRUFFDOG collected 49247 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 98494 | Rake 0
Board [ ]
Seat 2: xxCelticFCxx showed [ ] and won (49247) with a pair of Kings
Seat 4: SCRUFFDOG showed [ ] and won (49247) with a pair of Kings
Seat 5: pokerboy410 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: PimPfisH3 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: Ironside (big blind) folded on the Flop



ok the last person i want to get involded with is the celtic fan as he is the only one that can really hurt me

there is 942$ for winning and only 204$ for 5th
when i folded i still had plenty of chips
if i had called and won i would have the comp sewn up
in hindsight i should of called but not knowing there hands was i right to fold?

[GlasgowBandit]

good fold imo.  At the end of the day all you had was a pair which is generally not that strong in omaha.  As you say you don't want to tangle with some nutter who who can damage your stack.

[boldie]

good fold imo.  At the end of the day all you had was a pair which is generally not that strong in omaha.  As you say you don't want to tangle with some nutter who who can damage your stack.

indeed...flush draw out there after the flop...after the turn straight is out there...it's a good fold. You completely missed the flop and it didn't even give you any outs...it's a fold every time.

[Royal Flush]

I pot the flop.....

[elblondie]

PLO is very much a flop matching game. I may have put a feeler, weak quarter pot bet in on the flop, but more probably checked and folded.
This is a standard 'out of position hole' I always try and avoid. The correct play is NOT to re-raise before the flop because you and your opponent are only commiting 20% or so of your chips. That leaves 80% of your stacks to play for on the flop. You may have the best starting hand but he has the best position. When the chips are deep he has the best situation not you. I would try and smooth call pre-flop to keep the pot small. If a re-raise would get over 60% of my stack in the middle, then I would probably re-raise.
I actually went out of the $10,000 PLO in the WSOP making this mistake. I kicked myself twice a day for a week.

[boldie]

PLO is very much a flop matching game. I may have put a feeler, weak quarter pot bet in on the flop, but more probably checked and folded.
This is a standard 'out of position hole' I always try and avoid. The correct play is NOT to re-raise before the flop because you and your opponent are only commiting 20% or so of your chips. That leaves 80% of your stacks to play for on the flop. You may have the best starting hand but he has the best position. When the chips are deep he has the best situation not you. I would try and smooth call pre-flop to keep the pot small. If a re-raise would get over 60% of my stack in the middle, then I would probably re-raise.
I actually went out of the $10,000 PLO in the WSOP making this mistake. I kicked myself twice a day for a week.

well..if the man himself says it I reckon there can be no further discussion.

[Royal Flush]

I agree with Dave's basic reasoning, but i don't see the point of giving up on a 95kk pot!

The flop comes down and its not great for us but it probably isn't too bad. We have the blocking the nut fd. It's possible we are up against KQJT/KKJT event KQQJ something like that. Obviously if he has the set we are dead in the water, however it's far more likely he has KKxx.

If we check we may well give this pot up, if he checks behind what are we doing on the turn? So many bad cards can come.

Put in the 60k, if he wants to stick his stack on the line then he can, i can't see him doing it with many hands. Take the pot down and you have 150k!

[elblondie]

Well if you think your opponent is a bad player, you could 'hope' ge has KK with two cards that dont give a staright draw and gamble your whole tourney on the fact. I dont think it is great tourney strategy though if you think you are the best player.

Generally if your opponent is a good PLO player in this coupe he not very likely to have KKrubish. Most good PLO players will not call a re-rase with a paired hand. Hand such as 6789 or 9JQK are much likely. This flop is just about as bas as it gets against 4 random cards.
As I said though, I wouldn't get myself in this spot in the first place. I would not have re-raised pre-flop out of position against another huge stack.

However, I would have called a re-raise in position knowing my opponent has Aces with practically any 4 cards that were unpaired withouth an Ace. Just the sort of hands that would love Q79.
I would suggest in PLO I have won 10 times as many chips against Aces in this manner, than I ever will with Aces at PLO.

[Royal Flush]

Almost all my PLO tourney experience is online, and i find that more often then not i see KK there rather than 4 live cards.

I still remember my first live PLO comp, Barca 2005, some bloke called El Blondie knocked me out with his AJ87!! That J82 flop looked safe for my last few chips!!! 

[M3boy]

Correct fold in my opinion.

(And an easy one at that)