Tournament: How to play KK correctly

[moritzey]

Hey, just wondering if any of the tourney pro's out there could give me some advice on that. Was not terribly upset with going out in that spot, as I personally couldn't see how to avoid it, but then spent some more time thinking about the hand later on, and I'm no longer so sure ... anyway, here it goes:

Blinds are 300-600, 750 players left in a $5 rebuy on Stars, 400 get paid, top-price $8,000
Average Stack about 16,000

Me (SB), 27,000: KsKh
fold, fold, fold ...
Cutoff, 40,000: Raises to 1,800
Button, 55,000: Calls
Me: Push all-in
Cutoff calls with Aces
End of story

Based on the hands that the C/O had been raising with, I would have put him on 66+, ATs+, AQ+
In retrospect I now think that my push was silly, instead maybe I should've re-raised to some 5,000 and then take it from there. But if that happens, how do I play this hand best?

Scenario A:
C/O to 1,800
Button calls
Me to 5,000
C/O all-in
Button fold
Me:

Scenario B:
C/O to 1,800
Button calls
Me to 5,000
C/O calls
Button calls
Flop: Axx
Me: ??

Scenario C:
C/O to 1,800
Button calls
Me to 5,000
C/O calls
Button calls
Flop: Qxx
Me: ??

This is not meant to be a bad-beat moan, I'm just looking for some advice on how to play this hand, how to get away from it &c. - Can't really believe that AA v KK should always mean it's game over..

[Sheriff Fatman]

Playing it like that (27000 into a 4500 pot) will either get you no action or busted.

You played it like you were scared to see a flop with an Ace on it.

However, chances are, no matter how you played it, you most likely end up busting here unless an ace flops and scares you away.  Normally, the only way of spotting Aces in this situation is when the guy holding them makes tell-tale small bets and tries to milk it.  He made a standard raise here so there's no indication that he would've done that.

However, the overbet pre-flop is a very -EV play, unless you are playing against very bad players.

Sheriff

[doubleup]

Unless you play very timidly, I think you go broke anyway.  I would reraise preflop 100% of the time here because the button has called.

So I'm going to make it about 5k.  If he calls and the flop doesn't have an ace, I'm stacked.  If he goes AI pre-flop, hmmm I don't think I could fold in this trny.  I might be able to in a big live tourney, if I felt the player was reasonably tight.

I don't think the button calls that often, but a blank flop I'm still pushing so go broke.

I suppose the AA might mini raise to get rid of the button, if that happens, against most players you are up against AA, so you might be able to get away if you don't flop a set.

Overall I think you go broke in this standard of tourney most of the time unless you have very good info about your opponent.

[tantrum]

I don't think you can give a fool proof prescriptions how to play KK; it all depends who is at your table.  There are some people that will only re-raise with AA/KK some who will  re-raise with wider range of hands.  Some who like to flat call with their AA if re-raised to them.

Each of those scenarios will depend who you are against.

[moritzey]

I don't think you can give a fool proof prescriptions how to play KK; it all depends who is at your table.  There are some people that will only re-raise with AA/KK some who will  re-raise with wider range of hands.  Some who like to flat call with their AA if re-raised to them.

Each of those scenarios will depend who you are against.

Well, yes. I had a range for that guy, wrote it somewhere in the original post (66+, ATs+, AQ+) - so not exactly the rock of gibraltar, but still a vaguely reasonable play. Had I re-raised preflop and he had gone all in, that would still leave me with a range of JJ+, AK, AQ ..


Anyway, will just make sure that next time I have him covered when this crops up ...

[Dewi_cool]

always a hard one, flat call if A on flop you fold, if not go out anyway, just unlucky

[totalise]

If you never fold KK preflop in small stakes tournies/cash games, you will fare much better then those that try and figure out reasons to fold it. They might be correct every so often, but the money they throw away by trying to play perrfect poker is far in excess of what they win if they just blindly ship it in each and every time they get teh KK.

[The_Diamond]

always a hard one, flat call if A on flop you fold, if not go out anyway, just unlucky

Huzzuh?

There's are times when flat calling with Kings is fine but this isn't one of them. Also, why go into check-fold mode when the villain will only raise preflop with a smallish % of hands with an ace in it?

Reraise preflop and call his subsequesnt push. Nothing you can do here.

[Highstack]

I would reraise pre-flop and then possibly get away from it depending on the texture of the flop and the action that I get. I don't like the all in pre at all, but you were still unlucky to walk into AA (around 22/1).

That said, I have gone broke many times with KK and I no doubt will do so many times again.

The reason for this is simple .... it is because I see so many (particularly on-line) overplaying weaker hands like AK QQ JJ &TT. Only AA is beating you (and 20% of the time you can outdraw that too! ), so laying KK to strength pre-flop is always tough.

[The_Diamond]

you were still unlucky to walk into AA (around 22/1).

[Highstack]

Ok 21.69/1 !!! Better? :D:D

Full handed 10 seat table.

Odds are:

(4 in 50) x (3 in 49) / 9 remaining players

[SupaMonkey]

It is 1/22.85 or 1-21.85 but your calculation is wrong.

You need to do  �

[Highstack]

How can my calculation be wrong? Especially when our answers are identical!

[SupaMonkey]

Your method is wrong. I just changed mine because i forgot to include the ^8.

[moritzey]

Well, I suppose the 22-1 is inappropriate anyway, as his bet narrowed the range of his potential holdings a lot ..

Thanks for all your advice, though.