BBC Three Now! Kill It Cook It Eat It!

[KingPoker]

Will do a quick response before i walk my dawgs!
I understand what your saying brendan but look at it another (maybe completely rediculous way)
Cows can i belive live up to 10- 15 years (maybe completely wrong about that)
So in other words, the two years they live for is equivalent to around 20- 25% of their possible total life span. So i would argue their life is not pointless.
If i was given the choice (again a totally stupid way of thinking but does work) of living for 20-25% of my total lifespan (lets say till i was 20 years old or so!)have a very comfortable life, and then be killed in an instantaneous way or....
not live at all, i know which i would choose.
Life is never pointless, i know our priorities have changed but we as a hunter-gatherer race we have always used natural resources to ensure our survival, its in-built!
And to finsih off again with a stupid thing, if my dogs died tomorrow, i would be devestated because i love them so much but i would take consolation in the fact that they had the best life possible up til then and thats exactly how i feel about the sheep and cows on the farm also!

[zelda]

http://www.wspa.org.uk/news.asp?newsID=276&type=3   note the last few pictures display a better quality of life for the animals and are a world apart from the earlier pictures. 

Not all farmed animals are allowed to graze and live a more natural existence due to the desire to produce the cheapest possible meat. You cannot deny that factory farming exists in this country.  Or that the animals within it suffer.  I realise people are going to eat meat - I advocate a more natural and better quality of life for them.  I may not live on a farm  but I make it my business to keep informed of various animal rights campaigns and teach in schools for animal aid and viva.  The 'very media surrounded world' I am used to living in is full of propaganda depicting untruths about the extent of suffering that we inflict on animals.  It may be the case that animals on your, and other similar, farms are well looked after while they are there.  But you cannot deny that factory farming exists and is cruel.

Kev - Im happy with the skin im in thankyou  

[KingPoker]

I doff my cap, i really do understand where you are coming from and in what you just said you pretty much say what i think anyway. I dont deny it doesnt exist but i think where we differ is i believe it is very much in the minority of the farming sector that cruelty takes place. I certainly wouldnt stand for it in the area and would report any farmer who showed negligence towards ther animals but it simply doesnt happen around here.
I really have to walk my dogs now!

[zelda]

Enjoy

[ericstoner]

I will step aside now ,cos I don't want to be party to a thread that turns into a vegatarian v Farmer slanging match.up till now it has been very civil.

Anyway I want to turn my attentions to the evil polititions who are causing this current arlam about global warming,to prevent development in the 3rd world.

Now theres one to sleep on eh.

[RED-DOG]

For the record, I thought it was a well mannered debate considering the fact that It's such an emotive subject

[AndrewT]

I thought the reaction of the people taking part was interesting. I suspect that the makers fully expected people to be put off eating meat by seeing the process in full, but that didn't happen.

I think a lot of vegetarians seem to think that meat-eaters are completely naive as to how their steak or sausages end up on their plate and, if they only saw the process involved, they'd turn veggie.

There is a problem with intensive farming, but the problem is that it produces bland meat. You can tell someone they should only eat meat which comes from 'ethical' (however you want to define it) farming practices and they may nod and say yes. They'll then go down the supermarket and buy the factory-farmed stuff, because it's cheaper.

Once you actually set up a taste test though, and they can compare the difference in taste, that is far more likely to make them pay the extra and make them switch than trying to appeal to their conscience. This is why I think that people who campaign against cruel farming methods should actually emphasise how tasty well produced meat is. It's easier to pull someone towards something that is appealing, rather than push them away from something that you think is unappealing.

[KingPoker]

Once you actually set up a taste test though, and they can compare the difference in taste, that is far more likely to make them pay the extra and make them switch than trying to appeal to their conscience. This is why I think that people who campaign against cruel farming methods should actually emphasise how tasty well produced meat is. It's easier to pull someone towards something that is appealing, rather than push them away from something that you think is unappealing.

Really like that line and i think it would work!

[zelda]

I think a lot of vegetarians seem to think that meat-eaters are completely naive as to how their steak or sausages end up on their plate and, if they only saw the process involved, they'd turn veggie.
There is a problem with intensive farming, but the problem is that it produces bland meat. You can tell someone they should only eat meat which comes from 'ethical' (however you want to define it) farming practices and they may nod and say yes. They'll then go down the supermarket and buy the factory-farmed stuff, because it's cheaper.

I would lose complete faith in the human race if I thought this true... 

Hillside is a sanctuary that does undercover investigations into farming methods.  Here is a link to one if you are interested http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-3328361050740940103

I just cant believe that people know this sort of thing happens and dont care.  You must be wrong