Theoretical Question regarding the rules

[johnbhoy76]

Right lets say there are two players Player A & Player B

We are down to the river

and board is         

Player A bets 200

and Player B calls with       ( so he has ace high )

Player A says "beats me" and mucks his cards.

Player B asks the dealer if he can see what Player A had. The dealer turns the cards over to reveal

     He had made a straight on the river but hadn't realised it!

Couple of questions

1) Is Player B entitled to see Player A's cards in the first place?
2) Does Player A now win the hand?

This did not actually happen it's just something that occurred to me

[AdamM]

yes to both BEFORE he mucks them
no to both AFTER he mucks them

[johnbhoy76]

yes to both BEFORE he mucks them
no to both AFTER he mucks them

You see I was under the impression that if you CALL someones bet then you are entitled to see what they have. That's the whole point of calling I thought?

So even if he does not want to show them you are entitled to see them because you called his bet?

[matt674]

A situation similar to this happened at the world series main event at the table i was playing. Two players got involved in a pot, a young danish player and an older american.

The board came down 6-6-9: the danish player bet and the american reraised - the danish player called.

The turn was another 6: the danish player checked, the american bet - the danish player called.

The river came a J: the danish player checked, the american bet - the danish player thinks for a while before eventually announcing call and putting in his chips.

The American turns over KK for a 6's over K's full house. The Danish player looks at his cards and points to the American and looks at them again before getting ready to throw them to the dealer.

As he picked them up though for the second time the American announces to the dealer "I want to see his hand". The Danish player stops before throwing the cards looking puzzled. The American asks again to see his hand. The dealer then explains to the Danish player that he has to turn his cards over before he can muck them.

The Danish player proceeds to turn over pocket 9's giving him the higher full house, he didn't realize that he had the winning hand and the dealer pushed the chips to him much to his surprise. This lead to much grumbling by the American and much laughter from the rest of the table. The dealer said to the American if he'd have mucked his cards first then the pot would have been his.

but then chances are they play different rules in different casinos anyway......

[dik9]

If a request to see a bettors hand takes place, then the dealer should touch them in the muck first thereby killing them.

[Ironside]

If a request to see a bettors hand takes place, then the dealer should touch them in the muck first thereby killing them.

but once they have touched the muck no one has a right to see them

[dik9]

If a request to see a bettors hand takes place, then the dealer should touch them in the muck first thereby killing them.

but once they have touched the muck no one has a right to see them

9.09 KILLING LOSING HANDS.
No pot shall be awarded until all losing hands have been mucked or killed. In all situations (including those of partially exposed hands at showdown) where a player asks to see another player's hand, the dealer shall kill the hand first, by turning it face down and touching it to the muck. Hands shall never be placed on top of the muck. A hand that has been killed and then exposed is not eligible to win the pot, except and unless the winner of the pot has asked to see it, in which case it does remain eligible to win the pot.


except and unless the winner of the pot has asked to see it, in which case it does remain eligible to win the pot. hmmmmmm i don't use this rule, I will now 

[RichEO]

When I was in the Bellagio (only playing 2-5 btw). There was a guy that always wanted to see peoples hands. There was a new dealer and when he asked again, the dealer warned him that he could see the hand but there was a chance he could lose the pot if it actually beat him. The hand wasn't in the muck but the player had pushed the cards towards the dealer.

You see I was under the impression that if you CALL someones bet then you are entitled to see what they have. That's the whole point of calling I thought?

So even if he does not want to show them you are entitled to see them because you called his bet?

If you are a caller in a hand, it is the other players turn to show 1st. So you should wait for them to show their hand, then you have the option of showing or mucking. If you show out of turn then I assume that's your fault.. and if the player who bet REALLY doesn't want to show his hand (this happened with the same guy in vegas too) then they can just muck and lose without a showdown.

The 1st situation above, and maybe the one you meant to be talking about?? Was when the player who had bet wanted to see the calling players hand and the dealer obliged.

[boldie]

A situation similar to this happened at the world series main event at the table i was playing. Two players got involved in a pot, a young danish player and an older american.

The board came down 6-6-9: the danish player bet and the american reraised - the danish player called.

The turn was another 6: the danish player checked, the american bet - the danish player called.

The river came a J: the danish player checked, the american bet - the danish player thinks for a while before eventually announcing call and putting in his chips.

The American turns over KK for a 6's over K's full house. The Danish player looks at his cards and points to the American and looks at them again before getting ready to throw them to the dealer.

As he picked them up though for the second time the American announces to the dealer "I want to see his hand". The Danish player stops before throwing the cards looking puzzled. The American asks again to see his hand. The dealer then explains to the Danish player that he has to turn his cards over before he can muck them.

The Danish player proceeds to turn over pocket 9's giving him the higher full house, he didn't realize that he had the winning hand and the dealer pushed the chips to him much to his surprise. This lead to much grumbling by the American and much laughter from the rest of the table. The dealer said to the American if he'd have mucked his cards first then the pot would have been his.

but then chances are they play different rules in different casinos anyway......

I think this is the correct ruling

[phatomch]

in Grosvenor's any player on the table can request to see a mucked hand as long as the hand has been dealt to a conclusion.
The player does not evan have to be in the hand at the last betting point.