Are Poker Clubs Legal?

[jezza777]

I read a very interesting post on another forum today. Derek Kelly who is head honcho of the Gutshot Card Club had been issued with a summons in relation to the operation of the club. It seems that after almost two years of open operation the powers that be have decided to take action. So..

Are we breaking the law when playing?

Is my monday night homegame going to get raided?

Is it illegal to be a member of an illegal club? (if it is deemed illegal)

Where do we stand as players, members and game hosts?


Any thoughts?

[mikkyT]

It all boils down to the wording (or the absense of) of the 1968 Gaming Act and the amendments made to it. Simply put, it is a grey area. Firstly, does poker actually come under that act, or is it simply unlegistlated. The act refers to "games of equal chance", and you can argue that poker is AND isn't, depending upon your aims.

If poker is indeed a game of equal chance then the act clearly states that private member clubs (eg, working mens club, miners welfare unions) whose main purpose is not for the purpose of gaming may operate without registering itself under said Act, and charge a nominal fee for the running of such events. They may also register under the act with their local gaming board which allows them to charge more.

An independant lawyer who has read the relevant material would be best placed to comment, but in my mind having studied the act, the key elements are the "private members club" and the "game of equal chance".

[Robert HM]

No

No

No

Watch this space

Sorry to be short, at work and the boss is a git.
(yes Robert, you are)

[mikkyT]

See, I knew a laywer would use less words than me, and be more consise. (sarcasm off)

Homegames don't really count anyway as what you do in your own home is typically your business. Unless you happen to be charging for the service

[tikay]

Wow, interesting developmemt there jezza.

I'm keen to see this one debated as openly as possible, BUT.......

WE have had to take legal advice on this, as we come into the area of sub-judice.

Please be careful how you debate this. Broadly speaking, we could or would be deemed in contempt of court for debating the SPECIFIC case. But we can chat all day about the general issue, and it IS a very important matter. The whole future of Venue based Poker in the UK is at stake. It don't get more important than that.

But contempt of court is a seriouis matter too. It's usually an imprisonable offence, & Dave might manage it, but I've got a body to die for, & we all know the stories of droppd bars of soap....

So, if any posts on this thread cross the line of legality, as we see it, we may have to edit or delete. Not something we wanna do, we know it rubs up folks the wrong way, but there ARE limits, & I'm keen to retain my liberty. Help us to keep the thread alive by bearing that in mind, please.

Oh, & a big up to jezza. He PM'd one of our Miods first, before posting - in this case, very wise. There followed a flurry of head-scratching & legal consulting, but I think we are OK if we don't talk about the SPECIFIC case.

[Pontecarlo]

i run a local game and have seen a comment recently from the gaming board which says that if a private members club wish to hold a poker night and that any charge is not the main source of income then it is legal- we play in a wmc club type thing , its not ciu affiliated but actually owned by the members
we play once a week so to me thats a private members club holding a poker night - it isnt the main source of income as drinks are - the club hires the room to me , a charge is made to the players to cover the cost of dealers , room and update of equipment , so i beleive we are perfectly legal
i think the grey area exists really with clubs opening up purely for the purpose of playing poker - surely with the new gaming laws being relaxed someone with half a brain in the government (must be one?) will realise that changes need to made to legalise everything - i cant beleive they will take a backward step and criminalise it especially when consider all the future revenue these places will bring in taxes not to mention employment opportunitys

[mikkyT]

I think his questions are very general, he doesn't make references to any specific cases. Very wise move. And thanks for the heads up, tikay!

Another question... or perhaps a statement... surely is okay to discuss past cases (kinda the point of having a legal system built upon case law) and therefore my question is : have there been any past cases!

And finally, if Rob or anyone else can spare the time, can someone provide me with a brief (haha) run down of the reasons where it is legal... Am I on the right track, etc etc.

IMO we should do away with lawyers and judges, and replace with some new laws written in Engish

[tikay]

Mikky, yuip Jezza's post is pefectly phrased, & to be honest, we advised him, in general terms, what would be legally acceptab;e, & he got it spot on.

I have also discussed it with Rob (in the last half hour) , & you can expect comment from him, though maybe not until tomorrow, as he's playing in the William Hill Grand Prix today.

[mikkyT]

You saying he can't multi-task! Whatever next...

[gatso]

i see that Gutshot have received a summons for breaching the gaming act. soes anyone with more legal knowledge than me know how serious it is? are we talking about potential closure?

[Heid]

i see that Gutshot have received a summons for breaching the gaming act. soes anyone with more legal knowledge than me know how serious it is? are we talking about potential closure?

We have a thread on this already Gatso... here :

http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=2738.0

[gatso]

cheers Heid. this place moves too fast for me to keep up

[Robert HM]

The trouble is you're spending too much time on other fora, get the news here first. 

[gatso]

sorry robert. i'll try my hardest not to stray from blonde in the future

[Robert HM]

Good for you, you wouldn't a visit from the boys!