Induce bluff or blocker bet river?

[AlexMartin]

Villain is good reg, 2+2 poster and thinking opponent. Views me as waco sometimes solid mostly. Is river induce too thin given stacks/pot size? Thought about value shove but thinks this makes more off right type of oppo.

GAME #767499885: Texas Hold'em NL $1.00/$2.00 2007-12-21 03:04:48
Table Morant Bay
Seat 1: ThsMnsNthng2Me ($220.75 in chips) DEALER
Seat 3: fakkyall ($373.55 in chips)
Seat 5: pedrosantosiQ ($194.00 in chips)
Seat 6: kinghomer13 ($124.25 in chips)
Seat 8: nikinblinds ($212.95 in chips)
Seat 10: rotor99 ($115.80 in chips)
fakkyall: Post SB $1.00
pedrosantosiQ: Post BB $2.00
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to nikinblinds [ ]
Dealt to ThsMnsNthng2Me [ ]
kinghomer13: Fold
nikinblinds: Raise $7.00
rotor99: Fold
ThsMnsNthng2Me: Call $7.00
fakkyall: Fold
pedrosantosiQ: Call $5.00
*** FLOP *** [ ]
pedrosantosiQ: Check
nikinblinds: Bet $18.00
ThsMnsNthng2Me: Call $18.00
pedrosantosiQ: Fold
*** TURN *** [ ]
nikinblinds: Bet $38.00
ThsMnsNthng2Me: Call $38.00
*** RIVER *** [ ]
nikinblinds: Check
ThsMnsNthng2Me: Bet $157.75
nikinblinds: Allin $149.95
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $438.70 Rake $3.00
ThsMnsNthng2Me: wins $7.80
nikinblinds: wins $430.90

[Longy]

I play it like you until the turn.

I bet more on the turn close to the pot and then I can value shove the river without being a pot size bet.

What i will say against a thinking opponent your image is vital here and you have to show the ability to double barrell light in spots and make thin value bets/shoves on the river, to get him/her to call with wide enough range to make the most equity in these spots.

As played of course this isn't horrible and we get the desired result but fwiw I hate his shove on the river. I mean what the hell is this, his hand has showdown value, your hand looks like a scared overpair which will probably call. He folds out 99/1010 type hands alot here unless you hero call to much, I really can't work out if he is bluffing or value betting.

[AlexMartin]

I play it like you until the turn.

I bet more on the turn close to the pot and then I can value shove the river without being a pot size bet.

What i will say against a thinking opponent your image is vital here and you have to show the ability to double barrell light in spots and make thin value bets/shoves on the river, to get him/her to call with wide enough range to make the most equity in these spots.

As played of course this isn't horrible and we get the desired result but fwiw I hate his shove on the river. I mean what the hell is this, his hand has showdown value, your hand looks like a scared overpair which will probably call. He folds out 99/1010 type hands alot here unless you hero call to much, I really can't work out if he is bluffing or value betting.

Serious? He knows his hand is no good. Trust me.

[totalise]

I play it like you until the turn.

I bet more on the turn close to the pot and then I can value shove the river without being a pot size bet.

What i will say against a thinking opponent your image is vital here and you have to show the ability to double barrell light in spots and make thin value bets/shoves on the river, to get him/her to call with wide enough range to make the most equity in these spots.

As played of course this isn't horrible and we get the desired result but fwiw I hate his shove on the river. I mean what the hell is this, his hand has showdown value, your hand looks like a scared overpair which will probably call. He folds out 99/1010 type hands alot here unless you hero call to much, I really can't work out if he is bluffing or value betting.

Serious? He knows his hand is no good. Trust me.

lolol, hes so good he puts yu on AA and is trying to bluff you out even though he has supreme showdown value against most of your range? cant stop laughing. Look at the board texture

[AlexMartin]

Seriously, come out of abc world and into the twilight zone ppl. This is not as clear as that. Totalise, do you still hate me? Coz im getting vibes....

[totalise]

Seriously, come out of abc world and into the twilight zone ppl. This is not as clear as that. Totalise, do you still hate me? Coz im getting vibes....

I dont hate you at all, but are you seriously thinkng that you checked here for someone to turn top pair, ON THIS FLOP, into a bluff? cmon! the river check is a bad play, his push is bad, the whole river play from both is terrible. This is 1/2NL, not plato vs confucious

[Tragic]

I don't think he has you on AA because I really don't think he expects you to fold here. You have tricked him into a sick value bet vs what he thinks is your TT or 99 imo, you are surely gonna VB an overpair here anyway, further ruling that out of what he puts you on. If he thinks you are capable of mental plays then I guess he can see you calling in this spot with weaker holding than him. His bet is close to pointless if he thinks he is behind.

[AlexMartin]

Alex[/url] Martin link=topic=29857.msg612951#msg612951 date=1198297790]
Seriously, come out of abc world and into the twilight zone ppl. This is not as clear as that. Totalise, do you still hate me? Coz im getting vibes....

I dont hate you at all, but are you seriously thinkng that you checked here for someone to turn top pair, ON THIS FLOP, into a bluff? cmon! the river check is a bad play, his push is bad, the whole river play from both is terrible. This is 1/2NL, not plato vs confucious

Seriously i make more money inducing a bluff here than shoving 4sure. LOL @ that line. Shoving gets worse hands to fold and better hands to call no? Maybe im being dumb but it makes sense in my world.

[M3boy]

The shove from Mateyboy is terrible!!

What hand does he think he is behind to that you will fold?!?!

I also think that the way he has played, he CALLS a shove from you on the river

[byronkincaid]

he's repping the flush right? I imagine this was a somewhat difficult call for Alex that's why he's saying it's a bluff. That is the saying - "he's turned his hand into a bluff"

[Longy]

Alex[/url] Martin link=topic=29857.msg612951#msg612951 date=1198297790]
Seriously, come out of abc world and into the twilight zone ppl. This is not as clear as that. Totalise, do you still hate me? Coz im getting vibes....

I dont hate you at all, but are you seriously thinkng that you checked here for someone to turn top pair, ON THIS FLOP, into a bluff? cmon! the river check is a bad play, his push is bad, the whole river play from both is terrible. This is 1/2NL, not plato vs confucious

Seriously i make more money inducing a bluff here than shoving 4sure. LOL @ that line. Shoving gets worse hands to fold and better hands to call no? Maybe im being dumb but it makes sense in my world.

The advantages of shoving are that we make our hand look like a bluff and therefore get hero called by quite a bit of his range. The description of your opponent indicates to me that he SHOULD check behind alot of his range as it has showdown value and is rarely floating 2 streets with nothing as this is such a dry board, there are no missed draws here.

I certainly don't think your dumb Alex but if you think about the ranges in this particular hand, your opponents is made up of jacks, pocket pairs (some which made boats/quads) and flushes. Hardly any of that range should bet the river IMO unless they have you beat.

[AlexMartin]

Alex[/url] Martin link=topic=29857.msg612968#msg612968 date=1198308711]

Alex[/url] Martin link=topic=29857.msg612951#msg612951 date=1198297790]
Seriously, come out of abc world and into the twilight zone ppl. This is not as clear as that. Totalise, do you still hate me? Coz im getting vibes....

I dont hate you at all, but are you seriously thinkng that you checked here for someone to turn top pair, ON THIS FLOP, into a bluff? cmon! the river check is a bad play, his push is bad, the whole river play from both is terrible. This is 1/2NL, not plato vs confucious

Seriously i make more money inducing a bluff here than shoving 4sure. LOL @ that line. Shoving gets worse hands to fold and better hands to call no? Maybe im being dumb but it makes sense in my world.

The advantages of shoving are that we make our hand look like a bluff and therefore get hero called by quite a bit of his range. The description of your opponent indicates to me that he SHOULD check behind alot of his range as it has showdown value and is rarely floating 2 streets with nothing as this is such a dry board, there are no missed draws here.

I certainly don't think your dumb Alex but if you think about the ranges in this particular hand, your opponents is made up of jacks, pocket pairs (some which made boats/quads) and flushes. Hardly any of that range should bet the river IMO unless they have you beat.

I love this line. It made my day. Are we still mentor buddies?  Im pretty sure im a different planet to all of you apart from Tragic. I mean that in a non-big-headed way.  I guess i need to think about how other ppl think more.

[totalise]

Im pretty sure im a different planet to all of you

im pretty sure you are as well

[Longy]

Alex[/url] Martin link=topic=29857.msg612968#msg612968 date=1198308711]

Alex[/url] Martin link=topic=29857.msg612951#msg612951 date=1198297790]
Seriously, come out of abc world and into the twilight zone ppl. This is not as clear as that. Totalise, do you still hate me? Coz im getting vibes....

I dont hate you at all, but are you seriously thinkng that you checked here for someone to turn top pair, ON THIS FLOP, into a bluff? cmon! the river check is a bad play, his push is bad, the whole river play from both is terrible. This is 1/2NL, not plato vs confucious

Seriously i make more money inducing a bluff here than shoving 4sure. LOL @ that line. Shoving gets worse hands to fold and better hands to call no? Maybe im being dumb but it makes sense in my world.

The advantages of shoving are that we make our hand look like a bluff and therefore get hero called by quite a bit of his range. The description of your opponent indicates to me that he SHOULD check behind alot of his range as it has showdown value and is rarely floating 2 streets with nothing as this is such a dry board, there are no missed draws here.

I certainly don't think your dumb Alex but if you think about the ranges in this particular hand, your opponents is made up of jacks, pocket pairs (some which made boats/quads) and flushes. Hardly any of that range should bet the river IMO unless they have you beat.

I love this line. It made my day. Are we still mentor buddies?  Im pretty sure im a different planet to all of you apart from Tragic. I mean that in a non-big-headed way.  I guess i need to think about how other ppl think more.

Lol it sounds worse than it was meant. I think we are looking at this hand very differently, a perfect situation for people to be buddied up, as we clearly look at some situations from a different point of view.