oh boy..more nanny state?

[totalise]

is it a lot cheaper to get battered now then it was 20 years ago? did they have diamond whites finest on offer back in the day of cheroots and gobstoppers? you can get out of it (for children) for about £2 these days, maybe thats something to do with it.

[kinboshi]

Yes, it tells you that their parents are poor parents and you should hang out with a different crowd

It's the "Drinking to get drunk" culture that is rife in the UK that is causing it. Parents do it and they do it in front of their kids..that makes them poor parents IMO.

Teaching you children to respect alcohol is just as important as any other part of parenting. As you say Boldie, we have gotten to a point where having a social drink is not possible, and kids now drink until they can't stand up or they don't bother.

I was a child in a family that taught from a very young age what alcohol was, and to enjoy it in a social setting, in moderation. I do the same to my children now and I'm hopeful that I've removed the mystery element of it, the need to try something 'forbidden' to excess....  I'm glad to say I have a teenager that shows no desire to go out and get drunk/have a drink.

Which is exactly how they treat alcohol in France and other European countries (although in Germany and Holland they also seem to like to drink to excess).

The media are portraying this as a new thing.  It happened when I was a child, and I'm sure it happened before then.  Probably didn't happen too much during the war or maybe soon after, but only because of a supply issue (would be interested to know if that's true or not).

Que? Where did this little snippet of information come from?..Though admittedly it might be a new thing, it never used to be the case.

Just from when I've been with groups of Dutch and Germans.  They liked to 'binge' drink as much as the English.  But that's maybe because they were a group of lads from the same sports team (rather than the country they were from). 

I'm just going on personal experience, as I haven't read any studies in this area.  The only 'fact' I know is that Germans drink more on average than Brits. This isn't necessarily through binge drinking though.

So I might well be wrong.  In fact, I'm rarely rite.

[boldie]

is it a lot cheaper to get battered now then it was 20 years ago? did they have diamond whites finest on offer back in the day of cheroots and gobstoppers? you can get out of it (for children) for about £2 these days, maybe thats something to do with it.

Yeah but you can buy cheap booze in any country. Though we still have a stigma attached to people that drink that really cheap stuff as it's "something alcoholics drink". I still frown when I see someone pick up "Tesco Value beer", Diamond white cider or Buckfast..I can't help it as you don't drink the stuff for the taste of it.

[boldie]

Yes, it tells you that their parents are poor parents and you should hang out with a different crowd

It's the "Drinking to get drunk" culture that is rife in the UK that is causing it. Parents do it and they do it in front of their kids..that makes them poor parents IMO.

Teaching you children to respect alcohol is just as important as any other part of parenting. As you say Boldie, we have gotten to a point where having a social drink is not possible, and kids now drink until they can't stand up or they don't bother.

I was a child in a family that taught from a very young age what alcohol was, and to enjoy it in a social setting, in moderation. I do the same to my children now and I'm hopeful that I've removed the mystery element of it, the need to try something 'forbidden' to excess....  I'm glad to say I have a teenager that shows no desire to go out and get drunk/have a drink.

Which is exactly how they treat alcohol in France and other European countries (although in Germany and Holland they also seem to like to drink to excess).

The media are portraying this as a new thing.  It happened when I was a child, and I'm sure it happened before then.  Probably didn't happen too much during the war or maybe soon after, but only because of a supply issue (would be interested to know if that's true or not).

Que? Where did this little snippet of information come from?..Though admittedly it might be a new thing, it never used to be the case.

Just from when I've been with groups of Dutch and Germans.  They liked to 'binge' drink as much as the English.  But that's maybe because they were a group of lads from the same sports team (rather than the country they were from). 

I'm just going on personal experience, as I haven't read any studies in this area.  The only 'fact' I know is that Germans drink more on average than Brits. This isn't necessarily through binge drinking though.

So I might well be wrong.  In fact, I'm rarely rite.

Yeah they do...but the way they drink it is completely different.

[Rod Paradise]

is it a lot cheaper to get battered now then it was 20 years ago? did they have diamond whites finest on offer back in the day of cheroots and gobstoppers? you can get out of it (for children) for about £2 these days, maybe thats something to do with it.

Yeah but you can buy cheap booze in any country. Though we still have a stigma attached to people that drink that really cheap stuff as it's "something alcoholics drink". I still frown when I see someone pick up "Tesco Value beer", Diamond white cider or Buckfast..I can't help it as you don't drink the stuff for the taste of it.

OI!! Leave the Monk's Wine out of this!!!!

Buckfast & Morgan's Spiced ftw!!!!

[AndrewT]

I think that part of the difference between Mediterranean drinking and drinking here is that in France/Spain etc children are introduced to alcohol as something which is drunk when the whole family is together. Children and parents (and often grandparents) will drink together and, because the social norm is for children not to misbehave in front of older relations, the link is formed in the children's minds that alcohol = something to be drunk in moderation and that excess drinking is a bad thing.

Whereas here, children are told that drinking is 'for grown ups', especially excess drinking. As children naturally want to be all grown up, excess drinking is something to aspire to, it's the mark of an adult. Also, because of the 'it's not for kids' approach, any drinking children do tends to be with their peers and out of sight of any adults, when kids are more likely to do silly things anyway.

I'd imagine the Scots referred to earlier who started drinking at home were more likely to be of the 'drinking cans of Tennants all night in front of the TV' variety rather than the 'have a glass of wine with Sunday dinner', which is obviously more likely to engender heavier drinking as they got older.

[Jon MW]

...

I'd imagine the Scots referred to earlier who started drinking at home were more likely to be of the 'drinking cans of Tennants all night in front of the TV' variety rather than the 'have a glass of wine with Sunday dinner', which is obviously more likely to engender heavier drinking as they got older.

I think this is where the point of the statistics being misleading comes in.

The Scots drinking at home with parents - leads to excess
The French/Med/Whatnot drinking at home with parents - doesn't

So their is a link - but it isn't the cause. As Andrew suggests, it's more to do with the parents attitude towards alcohol than whether the children are drinking at home or not.

[madasahatstand]

I think that part of the difference between Mediterranean drinking and drinking here is that in France/Spain etc children are introduced to alcohol as something which is drunk when the whole family is together. Children and parents (and often grandparents) will drink together and, because the social norm is for children not to misbehave in front of older relations, the link is formed in the children's minds that alcohol = something to be drunk in moderation and that excess drinking is a bad thing.

Whereas here, children are told that drinking is 'for grown ups', especially excess drinking. As children naturally want to be all grown up, excess drinking is something to aspire to, it's the mark of an adult. Also, because of the 'it's not for kids' approach, any drinking children do tends to be with their peers and out of sight of any adults, when kids are more likely to do silly things anyway.

I'd imagine the Scots referred to earlier who started drinking at home were more likely to be of the 'drinking cans of Tennants all night in front of the TV' variety rather than the 'have a glass of wine with Sunday dinner', which is obviously more likely to engender heavier drinking as they got older.

I agree so it's not about drink itself, its about the context of drinking and the guidance you get from parents and family. The only problem is that we are not all clones and don't raise kids the same way so some of us get it wrong, hence the 'guidance' thats to be published.

[madasahatstand]

if 50 of my friends drink with parents and 50 dont but 40/50 that did have long term problems, i think that tells you loads. I'll make sure i tidy up future posts when i quote evidence 

LoL just reading back through this thread I spotted this.....

We have solved the problem folks, it's not the parents to blame, it's Mad driving everyone to drink!

The alcoholic says to the doctor ' I couldn't help it, the pub door swung open and it was like a sign- I just had to go in' ...personal responsibility is oot the window

If only I could have that effect of people - driving them to drink. I could get the them all steaming and make the world a better place before they sobered up

[Colchester Kev]

if 50 of my friends drink with parents and 50 dont but 40/50 that did have long term problems, i think that tells you loads. I'll make sure i tidy up future posts when i quote evidence 

LoL just reading back through this thread I spotted this.....

We have solved the problem folks, it's not the parents to blame, it's Mad driving everyone to drink!

The alcoholic says to the doctor ' I couldn't help it, the pub door swung open and it was like a sign- I just had to go in' ...personal responsibility is oot the window

If only I could have that effect of people - driving them to drink. I could get the them all steaming and make the world a better place before they sobered up

Never ever underestimate your ability

[boldie]

if 50 of my friends drink with parents and 50 dont but 40/50 that did have long term problems, i think that tells you loads. I'll make sure i tidy up future posts when i quote evidence 

LoL just reading back through this thread I spotted this.....

We have solved the problem folks, it's not the parents to blame, it's Mad driving everyone to drink!

The alcoholic says to the doctor ' I couldn't help it, the pub door swung open and it was like a sign- I just had to go in' ...personal responsibility is oot the window

If only I could have that effect of people - driving them to drink. I could get the them all steaming and make the world a better place before they sobered up

Oh yeah..the bloody vegan hippies would be in charge and we'd all wear sandals and drive around on a Prius FFS.

[madasahatstand]

if 50 of my friends drink with parents and 50 dont but 40/50 that did have long term problems, i think that tells you loads. I'll make sure i tidy up future posts when i quote evidence 

LoL just reading back through this thread I spotted this.....

We have solved the problem folks, it's not the parents to blame, it's Mad driving everyone to drink!

The alcoholic says to the doctor ' I couldn't help it, the pub door swung open and it was like a sign- I just had to go in' ...personal responsibility is oot the window

If only I could have that effect of people - driving them to drink. I could get the them all steaming and make the world a better place before they sobered up

Never ever underestimate your ability

You flatter me

[bolt pp]

Whatever, diamond white ftw

[MrsBoldie]

Good old West Lothian Council - shifting the drinking day to Wednesday.....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7434013.stm

[boldie]

Good old West Lothian Council - shifting the drinking day to Wednesday.....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7434013.stm

Politicians really are idiots.