This is Unbelieveably Sck

[The Camel]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8076253.stm

I am firmly in the pro abortion camp, but whatever the rights and wrongs of abortion the idea that anti abortionists who protest for "the right of life" can somehow think it's justifiable to gun down and kill someone is warped beyond belief.

Some people need to have a good long look at themselves in a mirror.

[FuglyBaz]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8076253.stm

I am firmly in the pro abortion camp, but whatever the rights and wrongs of abortion the idea that anti abortionists who protest for "the right of life" can somehow think it's justifiable to gun down and kill someone is warped beyond belief.

Some people need to have a good long look at themselves in a mirror.

Whoever did this is a hypocrite in the extreme

Totally sick

[thetank]

The sad thing I find about abortion in the States (and by extension here too, to a lesser degree) is that becaue it is such a big political issue and discussed all the time, kids form their opinion of it in an abstract and impersonal sense. Abortions are no longer a dark and scary thing.

If and when kids do find themselves in trouble (so to speak) they immediately know what to do. I'm young and liberally minded, let's go and assert my right for an abortion.

All too often, it's not a personal thing till after it's done. I've known two women who later regretted their desicion to abort their baby, and it's not too easy a thing for them to deal with.

Whichever way a young girl goes, I'd rather that they make such a descion as this for personal rather than political reasons. So for this reason I'd love to see abortion discussed less in the political universe (not at all ideally), to make it a dark and scary thing again. Discussion to take place between a girl and her doctor rather than between a girl and some nutters on television.

It's a real paradox to state that opinion of course (saying that everyone should stfu about abortion is only adding to the discussion and so contradicting myself) but there you go.

[kinboshi]

The sad thing I find about abortion in the States (and by extension here too, to a lesser degree) is that becaue it is such a big political issue and discussed all the time, kids form their opinion of it in an abstract and impersonal sense. Abortions are no longer a dark and scary thing.

If and when kids do find themselves in trouble (so to speak) they immediately know what to do. I'm young and liberally minded, let's go and assert my right for an abortion.

All too often, it's not a personal thing till after it's done. I've known two women who later regretted their desicion to abort their baby, and it's not too easy a thing for them to deal with.

Whichever way a young girl goes, I'd rather that they make such a descion as this for personal rather than political reasons. So for this reason I'd love to see abortion discussed less in the political universe (not at all ideally), to make it a dark and scary thing again. Discussion to take place between a girl and her doctor rather than between a girl and some nutters on television.

It's a real paradox to state that opinion of course (saying that everyone should stfu about abortion is only adding to the discussion and so contradicting myself) but there you go.

Good points.  I'd go as far as saying that the issue is religion - remove that from the discussion, and think about things rationally - and things are a lot clearer.  For a woman in a particularly difficult and emotional time, she doesn't need people preaching woo at her to further confuse the issue.  The emotional blackmail isn't helpful at all.

[Royal Flush]

The sad thing I find about abortion in the States (and by extension here too, to a lesser degree) is that becaue it is such a big political issue and discussed all the time, kids form their opinion of it in an abstract and impersonal sense. Abortions are no longer a dark and scary thing.

If and when kids do find themselves in trouble (so to speak) they immediately know what to do. I'm young and liberally minded, let's go and assert my right for an abortion.

All too often, it's not a personal thing till after it's done. I've known two women who later regretted their desicion to abort their baby, and it's not too easy a thing for them to deal with.

Whichever way a young girl goes, I'd rather that they make such a descion as this for personal rather than political reasons. So for this reason I'd love to see abortion discussed less in the political universe (not at all ideally), to make it a dark and scary thing again. Discussion to take place between a girl and her doctor rather than between a girl and some nutters on television.

It's a real paradox to state that opinion of course (saying that everyone should stfu about abortion is only adding to the discussion and so contradicting myself) but there you go.

Good points.  I'd go as far as saying that the issue is religion - remove that from the discussion, and think about things rationally - and things are a lot clearer.  For a woman in a particularly difficult and emotional time, she doesn't need people preaching woo at her to further confuse the issue.  The emotional blackmail isn't helpful at all.

Some people have beliefs and faith, these are the same things that keep people ticking over i think it is very wrong to say religion should play no part.

[boldie]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8076253.stm

I am firmly in the pro abortion camp, but whatever the rights and wrongs of abortion the idea that anti abortionists who protest for "the right of life" can somehow think it's justifiable to gun down and kill someone is warped beyond belief.

Some people need to have a good long look at themselves in a mirror.

Kill one evil "doctor" to save 100's of babies.


You can't reason with someone who thinks the above choice is easy.

I have no problem with people whom are "pro-life"..it's just that the "pro-life" tag always makes me chuckle a bit when they threaten to kill others.
It's when they turn into religious zealots, and make no mistake most of the time they are religious nut jobs, that it really starts to tick me off and I think proportional action should be taken.
Maybe even slightly disproportionate. There are many websites dedicated to naming and shaming and promoting violence against Abortion clinics in the States. I reckon that if someone sets up one of those websites people should be allowed to pay that guy a visit and kick him in the nuts.

[rex008]

The sad thing I find about abortion in the States (and by extension here too, to a lesser degree) is that becaue it is such a big political issue and discussed all the time, kids form their opinion of it in an abstract and impersonal sense. Abortions are no longer a dark and scary thing.

If and when kids do find themselves in trouble (so to speak) they immediately know what to do. I'm young and liberally minded, let's go and assert my right for an abortion.

All too often, it's not a personal thing till after it's done. I've known two women who later regretted their desicion to abort their baby, and it's not too easy a thing for them to deal with.

Whichever way a young girl goes, I'd rather that they make such a descion as this for personal rather than political reasons. So for this reason I'd love to see abortion discussed less in the political universe (not at all ideally), to make it a dark and scary thing again. Discussion to take place between a girl and her doctor rather than between a girl and some nutters on television.

It's a real paradox to state that opinion of course (saying that everyone should stfu about abortion is only adding to the discussion and so contradicting myself) but there you go.

Good points.  I'd go as far as saying that the issue is religion - remove that from the discussion, and think about things rationally - and things are a lot clearer.  For a woman in a particularly difficult and emotional time, she doesn't need people preaching woo at her to further confuse the issue.  The emotional blackmail isn't helpful at all.

Some people have beliefs and faith, these are the same things that keep people ticking over i think it is very wrong to say religion should play no part.

Problem is when religion teaches that a baby has a "soul" the moment sperm joins with egg. Non-implantation and spontaneous abortions happen all the time, mostly without a woman even knowing they potentially could have got pregnant. But when a woman takes a pill to prevent implantation (morning after) or an early term abortion is performed, this is seen as murder by some, even though you probably destroy more human cells by brushing your teeth. Scientifically, it's utter bulls**t to say you are murdering a child by performing an early-term abortion, which is exactly what religiously motivated anti-abortionists call it. I agree that 24 weeks is too late in a pregnancy to do it, but that's by rational science, rather then religious motivation. Determining at what point a foetus can feel pain should morally be the cut off. Saying that that is before nerves are even formed is irrational rubbish.
IMHO, obv .

[TheChipPrince]

There were protestors and campaigners in Chester City centre on saturday morning trying to get people to sign up to stuff, showing large posters of late abortions...

[kinboshi]

The sad thing I find about abortion in the States (and by extension here too, to a lesser degree) is that becaue it is such a big political issue and discussed all the time, kids form their opinion of it in an abstract and impersonal sense. Abortions are no longer a dark and scary thing.

If and when kids do find themselves in trouble (so to speak) they immediately know what to do. I'm young and liberally minded, let's go and assert my right for an abortion.

All too often, it's not a personal thing till after it's done. I've known two women who later regretted their desicion to abort their baby, and it's not too easy a thing for them to deal with.

Whichever way a young girl goes, I'd rather that they make such a descion as this for personal rather than political reasons. So for this reason I'd love to see abortion discussed less in the political universe (not at all ideally), to make it a dark and scary thing again. Discussion to take place between a girl and her doctor rather than between a girl and some nutters on television.

It's a real paradox to state that opinion of course (saying that everyone should stfu about abortion is only adding to the discussion and so contradicting myself) but there you go.

Good points.  I'd go as far as saying that the issue is religion - remove that from the discussion, and think about things rationally - and things are a lot clearer.  For a woman in a particularly difficult and emotional time, she doesn't need people preaching woo at her to further confuse the issue.  The emotional blackmail isn't helpful at all.

Some people have beliefs and faith, these are the same things that keep people ticking over i think it is very wrong to say religion should play no part.

I didn't say faith or belief, I said 'religion'.

[Woodsey]

Late term abortion really is a totally different issue. About 90% of abortions are before 12 weeks pregnancy, I guess the majority of people these days are ok with this unless they have some personal beliefs to the contrary. A baby can be born and survive at 23 weeks gestation, late term abortions are essentially aborting these types of babies from 20-24 weeks gestation.

Just think about what's involved in aborting a baby at 23 weeks gestation that could survive? Its food for thought isn't it, that's why so few Dr's do it and virtually all complications can be picked up in the early stages of pregnancy. That's why this in particular is such an emotive issue.

Having said that shooting someone that does it, pfffttt, not much better.

[G1BTW]

Late term abortion really is a totally different issue. About 90% of abortions are before 12 weeks pregnancy, I guess the majority of people these days are ok with this unless they have some personal beliefs to the contrary. A baby can be born and survive at 23 weeks gestation, late term abortions are essentially aborting these types of babies from 20-24 weeks gestation.

Just think about what's involved in aborting a baby at 23 weeks gestation that could survive? Its food for thought isn't it, that's why so few Dr's do it and virtually all complications can be picked up in the early stages of pregnancy. That's why this in particular is such an emotive issue.

Having said that shooting someone that does it, pfffttt, not much better.

Given the emotive nature of the subject I don't think it was that long before some nutter came along and did it, in a nation with not only easy access to guns, but with a culture from the top that seems to promote pre-emptive violence as mandated by god.
lol @ the whole notion of a rational discussion on the issue with religious zealots, what they fail to see is that their "position" on the matter was never formed by reason but by the moral precepts of an irrational faith. In the UK large numbers of similarly irrational church leaders get to sit on authoritative groups like the Human Fertilization and Embryology Authority and tell rational people what they can and can't do, and when life does and doesn't begin.
"Life begins at conception" supposedly, which is why so many religious groups are against abortofacients like the Morning After pill. At the moment of conception, the soul enters the group cells as the principle of unification of that body. Difficult to explain then, what the **** has happened in the case of monozygotic twins, cuz for a while after conception there is no way at all of differentiating an oocyte that will become twins from one that will not. Unsure where the twin's soul hangs about until this process is decided.
Never have totally understood the whole "the fetus can't feel pain at point X" argument. If it were me, at 1 week, 8 weeks, or 25 weeks, I would have preferred you just left me the **** alone, tyvm. Never understood the "it's a woman's body and she has the right to do what she wants" argument either. I mean, it's *not* the woman's body, is it? It's not her DNA...
As for the doc, well, you can't really have people going around shooting the people they disagree with, can you? But suppose you were the defendent's attorney, what defence would you submit? Suppose the doc had been doing "partial birth abortions" (if you don't know it, look it up, pretty shocking imo). To the defendant, this doc was a murderer. Unsure of many real differences between partial birth abortion and murder myself actually. Well, to frame it differently then, if the state had passed an infanticide law that permitted mothers who were fed up with their kids at 1 yrs old to bring them to this guy to have them shot by him. Would it be morally permissable to murder the doc then?

I'm not saying I agree with the actions that provoked this debate, just showing where I think these guys may have been coming from.

[kinboshi]

In the UK large numbers of similarly irrational church leaders get to sit on authoritative groups like the Human Fertilization and Embryology Authority and tell rational people what they can and can't do, and when life does and doesn't begin.

Which is utterly ridiculous.

http://www.secularism.org.uk/

[Royal Flush]

The sad thing I find about abortion in the States (and by extension here too, to a lesser degree) is that becaue it is such a big political issue and discussed all the time, kids form their opinion of it in an abstract and impersonal sense. Abortions are no longer a dark and scary thing.

If and when kids do find themselves in trouble (so to speak) they immediately know what to do. I'm young and liberally minded, let's go and assert my right for an abortion.

All too often, it's not a personal thing till after it's done. I've known two women who later regretted their desicion to abort their baby, and it's not too easy a thing for them to deal with.

Whichever way a young girl goes, I'd rather that they make such a descion as this for personal rather than political reasons. So for this reason I'd love to see abortion discussed less in the political universe (not at all ideally), to make it a dark and scary thing again. Discussion to take place between a girl and her doctor rather than between a girl and some nutters on television.

It's a real paradox to state that opinion of course (saying that everyone should stfu about abortion is only adding to the discussion and so contradicting myself) but there you go.

Good points.  I'd go as far as saying that the issue is religion - remove that from the discussion, and think about things rationally - and things are a lot clearer.  For a woman in a particularly difficult and emotional time, she doesn't need people preaching woo at her to further confuse the issue.  The emotional blackmail isn't helpful at all.

Some people have beliefs and faith, these are the same things that keep people ticking over i think it is very wrong to say religion should play no part.

I didn't say faith or belief, I said 'religion'.

For a lot of people faith and belief is found within an organised religion.