DTD Deepstack line check pls

[MANTIS01]

This hand is not 100 bigs effective

Villain can fold

Sure, we can force villain to fold a worse hand. I still don't see the advantages.

er wut?

picking up 26 bbs uncontested?

If villain's got a worse hand we win those 26bb's on the turn anyway. Maybe we can win even more bb's from this worse hand by flatting flop.

[outragous76]

This hand is not 100 bigs effective

Villain can fold

Sure, we can force villain to fold a worse hand. I still don't see the advantages.

er wut?

picking up 26 bbs uncontested?

If villain's got a worse hand we win those 26bb's on the turn anyway. Maybe we can win even more bb's from this worse hand by flatting flop.

can I play you every day?

what range are you assigning him?

[ruholding]

go all in pre flop - most of the time they cant call

[MANTIS01]

This hand is not 100 bigs effective

Villain can fold

Sure, we can force villain to fold a worse hand. I still don't see the advantages.

er wut?

picking up 26 bbs uncontested?

If villain's got a worse hand we win those 26bb's on the turn anyway. Maybe we can win even more bb's from this worse hand by flatting flop.

can I play you every day?

what range are you assigning him?

What range am I assigning to the villain who sat down 2 hands ago? Tough one really. Hero compounds the wideness of villain's range by saying villain will play back at him with both strong and weak holdings. What's your guess? Also due to my successful career and being socially very popular I am unavailable to play every day.

[outragous76]

This hand is not 100 bigs effective

Villain can fold

Sure, we can force villain to fold a worse hand. I still don't see the advantages.

er wut?

picking up 26 bbs uncontested?

If villain's got a worse hand we win those 26bb's on the turn anyway. Maybe we can win even more bb's from this worse hand by flatting flop.

can I play you every day?

what range are you assigning him?

What range am I assigning to the villain who sat down 2 hands ago? Tough one really. Hero compounds the wideness of villain's range by saying villain will play back at him with both strong and weak holdings. What's your guess? Also due to my successful career and being socially very popular I am unavailable to play every day.

The point is we are currently behind to his "strong" 3 bets hands and our equity is about to get much worse if we just peel

We are also currenlty fav to improve against those hands if we get it in now

we are ahead of 2 overs and a FD but it can only go wrong from here and its pure guess work if we play the streets

If he has a worse hand he is unlikey to put a cent in the pot on the turn, but its not to say his "worse hand" cant improve on the river when we "give him a chance to bluff", and we will have no idea where we are if we dont improve

If he doenst have a FD  - there is a strong likelihood he isnt paying is off when it comes in (what are we calling with)

All in all, peeling the flop is just about the best way to fk this hand up

Just out of interest when you peel how do you play an Ax or Kx turn card when he leads?

[Eso Kral]

This hand is not 100 bigs effective

Villain can fold

Sure, we can force villain to fold a worse hand. I still don't see the advantages.

er wut?

picking up 26 bbs uncontested?

If villain's got a worse hand we win those 26bb's on the turn anyway. Maybe we can win even more bb's from this worse hand by flatting flop.

can I play you every day?

what range are you assigning him?

What range am I assigning to the villain who sat down 2 hands ago? Tough one really. Hero compounds the wideness of villain's range by saying villain will play back at him with both strong and weak holdings. What's your guess? Also due to my successful career and being socially very popular I am unavailable to play every day.

The point is we are currently behind to his "strong" 3 bets hands and our equity is about to get much worse if we just peel

We are also currenlty fav to improve against those hands if we get it in now

we are ahead of 2 overs and a FD but it can only go wrong from here and its pure guess work if we play the streets

If he has a worse hand he is unlikey to put a cent in the pot on the turn, but its not to say his "worse hand" cant improve on the river when we "give him a chance to bluff", and we will have no idea where we are if we dont improve

If he doenst have a FD  - there is a strong likelihood he isnt paying is off when it comes in (what are we calling with)

All in all, peeling the flop is just about the best way to fk this hand up

Just out of interest when you peel how do you play an Ax or Kx turn card when he leads?

FWIW i felt the peel on the flop was not the right decision as  i dont think this player pays off much on the turn if he does not have the hand he actually holds and if we get it in now i still have 27bb's if we lose and a stack of 45000+ if we win so i felt playing for stacks post flop was the correct decision in this hand.

[Spraggs]

probably too late to post in this thread but...

1. opening pre is fine.
2. if he perceives you as lag then 4 betting to ~4075, and folding to a shove is >>> calling pre.
3. folding to his 3 bet (crazy as it sounds) is fine.
4. Effective stacks aren't really deep enough imo to flat the 3 bet. If he had a similar stack to yours, then flatting is fine. (edit: tbf its close, but i prefer other options)
5. As played i'm making it ~5150 on flop and calling a 3b shove.

[SuuPRlim]

peeling pre-flop is pretty meh imo, i mean Ivey would prolly do it and we'd all be like "well it's Ivey he'll just win post flop" but i think with the stacks at this exact depth you're gonna have some reverse implied issues (a bit too deep to get it in on the flop with av. draws and no real reason to think we're stacking him when me monster) fold pre to the 3b for me.

We have to raise/get in on this flop, we're going to have strong equity vs any hand right now, but unlike a likely range for ourr  villain our equity is quite likely to decrease on the turn, to the point where we're  going to actually wanna fold a bunch of turns which is liiterally burning money, so I see Mantis' point about only making worse hands fold, but the problem with the worse hands in his range is they are likely to have good equity vs us anyway, so it's kind of a win getting them to fold, and when we get it in we'll be in good shape vs anything OTF

[MANTIS01]

Should we be worried about the turn card? The equity figure is high because lots of cards will improve us. I don't think villain will be loving many turn cards himself. Why should we be worried about A or K coming when villain has just donk lead a Q high flop? He should be worried about lots of turn cards including A/K imo.

With positional advantage, chip advantage, a good hand and strong situation I don't think we need to be getting it in for a flip. I think that would suit villain much more than it suits us. If I was villain with less chips and oop I'd prefer to get it in on the flop to save me being facked on the turn with a crazy tough decision.

[outragous76]

he 3 bet pre - how can he donk the flop?

Give him a range and you will start to see your logic is flawed when applying a little maths to it!

[SuuPRlim]

Should we be worried about the turn card? The equity figure is high because lots of cards will improve us. I don't think villain will be loving many turn cards himself. Why should we be worried about A or K coming when villain has just donk lead a Q high flop? He should be worried about lots of turn cards including A/K imo.

With positional advantage, chip advantage, a good hand and strong situation I don't think we need to be getting it in for a flip. I think that would suit villain much more than it suits us. If I was villain with less chips and oop I'd prefer to get it in on the flop to save me being facked on the turn with a crazy tough decision.

its not so much that we're worried about the turn card as like you say there are a ton of turn cards we love, the main problem we have is that there are going to be a bunch of turn cards that don't actually improve our oppo's hand but that damage our equity significantly Q/2/T/J etc and we should be folding on these cards with the stacks as they are.

The point about not taking a flip is a decent one for a comp with this structure, but if we want to realize our equity in this hand we have to go with it now, he folds a % of the time which ois fantastic for us as we win without having to risk our stack and we get it in in decent shape the rest. This is just a spot where risking getting into a 50/50 - 60/40 is just gonna be the best play imo - dont get me wrong I don't think flatting is terrible at all.

One good point about just flatting though is that if a card like a A rolls of and he has KK or KQ or w/e then he'll quite likely chk and we get to see a river for one bet which would be cool

[Eso Kral]

Thx for feedback guys i think this hand was quite interesting and there are lots of ways of playing it pre flop and turn, as i said in the op i think the result is the same this time around as the  came on the turn to give him a set and the 9ball filled him up on the river  so this villain still stacks off on this turn card.
Thx again

[MANTIS01]

Should we be worried about the turn card? The equity figure is high because lots of cards will improve us. I don't think villain will be loving many turn cards himself. Why should we be worried about A or K coming when villain has just donk lead a Q high flop? He should be worried about lots of turn cards including A/K imo.

With positional advantage, chip advantage, a good hand and strong situation I don't think we need to be getting it in for a flip. I think that would suit villain much more than it suits us. If I was villain with less chips and oop I'd prefer to get it in on the flop to save me being facked on the turn with a crazy tough decision.

its not so much that we're worried about the turn card as like you say there are a ton of turn cards we love, the main problem we have is that there are going to be a bunch of turn cards that don't actually improve our oppo's hand but that damage our equity significantly Q/2/T/J etc and we should be folding on these cards with the stacks as they are.

The point about not taking a flip is a decent one for a comp with this structure, but if we want to realize our equity in this hand we have to go with it now, he folds a % of the time which ois fantastic for us as we win without having to risk our stack and we get it in in decent shape the rest. This is just a spot where risking getting into a 50/50 - 60/40 is just gonna be the best play imo - dont get me wrong I don't think flatting is terrible at all.

One good point about just flatting though is that if a card like a A rolls of and he has KK or KQ or w/e then he'll quite likely chk and we get to see a river for one bet which would be cool

Good post. Question is what do you do holding  cos a bricked flop is what you usually see when calling the 3b pre with funky suited cards? Personally I'm still flatting the lead because villain is put in a crazy tough turn spot whatever. If I flat the flop with my whole range as I would I'm not convinced it's a bad strat or a bad spot for me overall to show profit with this type of hand/scenario. The fact that we are chip accumulating against soft blinds with low risk poker makes me think that whilst I see we can have a 5% equity edge or whatever on the flop why we're in such a rush to push it. I understand some turn cards will reduce our equity but if we're playing the hand to push our strengths of chips and position I would consider the equity less of a factor. I would only think this way because villain sees us as confirmed LAG so plays back wide.