War Criminal?

[highmile]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_and_the_International_Criminal_Court

this is also a bit of an issue for me (Though I understand the Americans' reasoning behind it)

Noamh Chomsky good reading on this stuff!

I would have laid a very big price that you would ever have posted that sentence jjandellis ;-)

Haha...I know. The idealist in me likes him, however the realist usually wins over.  I have to say he is amazing in how he uncovers untruths and how he conveys his thoughts. I'd love to sit in on one of his lectures, but he's sold out solid when he comes over the UK. Would be lovely if we could follow this guys vision, but I believe if we did it'd bite us massively in the arse.  The way I tend to see it is that the world's not a fair place and fortunately we (were?) are at the top of the pile.  Some of those we'd love to give more rights to, wouldn't hesitate in wiping us out if they got the chance IMO.

All very nice for Blair/Bush to free the Iraqi people of that bad bad man Saddam - but he was our bad man, keeping lots of 'orrible little monsters in place (much the way Tito did in FRY). Well done Blair/Bush, gg...

I quite agree with what you say at the end there so....
Is it really right for a 19 year old to go to his death to 'fight for his country' in such a ridiculous setup. Go to help us limit terrorism. End up amplifying it.
Dulce et decorum est.

Afghanistan is not Iraq

No it's not but is there any more justification for brave British soldiers to be sent to Afganistan than Iraq?

[Geo the Sarge]

My understanding is that Unionists don't particularly like the term Northern Ireland (because of the use of the word Ireland) any more than Nationalists do and as such prefer to use Ulster.  Initially when the country was being divided the idea was that all of Ulster would remain British but eventually it was decided that the other three counties were too Nationalist in outlook for that to work

So I could have been a Pro UK Government Unionists and Geo would have also been surprised if I had used the term Ulster?

No.  Unionists use the term all the time....I get the sense sometimes they use it just because they know the nationalists don't like it. 

highmile,

I tried to keep it simple, thinking that with all your previous posts against the Government that you were well versed on these things. Redarmi has explained it well enough and as he says I would expect a pro uk government unionist to be more likely to use the term Ulster. Simillar to the usage of Londonderry/Derry, dependant on which part of the political divide you belong.

Nationalists use Derry whilst Unionists use Londonderry

Geo

[Geo the Sarge]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_and_the_International_Criminal_Court

this is also a bit of an issue for me (Though I understand the Americans' reasoning behind it)

Noamh Chomsky good reading on this stuff!

I would have laid a very big price that you would ever have posted that sentence jjandellis ;-)

Haha...I know. The idealist in me likes him, however the realist usually wins over.  I have to say he is amazing in how he uncovers untruths and how he conveys his thoughts. I'd love to sit in on one of his lectures, but he's sold out solid when he comes over the UK. Would be lovely if we could follow this guys vision, but I believe if we did it'd bite us massively in the arse.  The way I tend to see it is that the world's not a fair place and fortunately we (were?) are at the top of the pile.  Some of those we'd love to give more rights to, wouldn't hesitate in wiping us out if they got the chance IMO.

All very nice for Blair/Bush to free the Iraqi people of that bad bad man Saddam - but he was our bad man, keeping lots of 'orrible little monsters in place (much the way Tito did in FRY). Well done Blair/Bush, gg...

I quite agree with what you say at the end there so....
Is it really right for a 19 year old to go to his death to 'fight for his country' in such a ridiculous setup. Go to help us limit terrorism. End up amplifying it.
Dulce et decorum est.

Afghanistan is not Iraq

No it's not but is there any more justification for brave British soldiers to be sent to Afganistan than Iraq?

None whatsoever

Geo

[Geo the Sarge]

My understanding is that Unionists don't particularly like the term Northern Ireland (because of the use of the word Ireland) any more than Nationalists do and as such prefer to use Ulster.  Initially when the country was being divided the idea was that all of Ulster would remain British but eventually it was decided that the other three counties were too Nationalist in outlook for that to work

So I could have been a Pro UK Government Unionists and Geo would have also been surprised if I had used the term Ulster?

No.  Unionists use the term all the time....I get the sense sometimes they use it just because they know the nationalists don't like it. 

So Unionists don't like the term but use it all the time to wind up the Nationalists............does that not say something about the Unionists??

Ulster as a region has existed since well before the troubles, therefore it is the correct usage but yes, it also antagonises the Nationalists.

Geo

[highmile]

My understanding is that Unionists don't particularly like the term Northern Ireland (because of the use of the word Ireland) any more than Nationalists do and as such prefer to use Ulster.  Initially when the country was being divided the idea was that all of Ulster would remain British but eventually it was decided that the other three counties were too Nationalist in outlook for that to work

So I could have been a Pro UK Government Unionists and Geo would have also been surprised if I had used the term Ulster?

No.  Unionists use the term all the time....I get the sense sometimes they use it just because they know the nationalists don't like it. 

highmile,

I tried to keep it simple, thinking that with all your previous posts against the Government that you were well versed on these things. Redarmi has explained it well enough and as he says I would expect a pro uk government unionist to be more likely to use the term Ulster. Simillar to the usage of Londonderry/Derry, dependant on which part of the political divide you belong.

Nationalists use Derry whilst Unionists use Londonderry

Geo

Well I think I've got it now, thank you. And posts aganst the Government, yes maybe but if you disagree with what they are doing I think it is important to voice your objection. The phrase 'not in my name' should be shouted out on regular occasions.

And just as an aside, to hopefully convince you that I am not 'Anti Brit'; my Grandfather was a Lt Col in the Scots Guards, he joined the Army at an early age as a Private or whatever the entry level is for the Guards. He fought in the 2nd World War and was part of one of  the original Special Forces, he is a famous name in the Scots Guards and mentioned many times in their history books.

My brother was a squaddie, amonst other things he was in Bosnia at the height of the action. Don't know too much about what went on as he still doesn't want to talk about the details.

So no agenda here, just call it as I see it and believe that if everyone did the same the world would be a better, safer and more honest place.

[Geo the Sarge]

My understanding is that Unionists don't particularly like the term Northern Ireland (because of the use of the word Ireland) any more than Nationalists do and as such prefer to use Ulster.  Initially when the country was being divided the idea was that all of Ulster would remain British but eventually it was decided that the other three counties were too Nationalist in outlook for that to work

So I could have been a Pro UK Government Unionists and Geo would have also been surprised if I had used the term Ulster?

No.  Unionists use the term all the time....I get the sense sometimes they use it just because they know the nationalists don't like it. 

highmile,

I tried to keep it simple, thinking that with all your previous posts against the Government that you were well versed on these things. Redarmi has explained it well enough and as he says I would expect a pro uk government unionist to be more likely to use the term Ulster. Simillar to the usage of Londonderry/Derry, dependant on which part of the political divide you belong.

Nationalists use Derry whilst Unionists use Londonderry

Geo

Well I think I've got it now, thank you. And posts aganst the Government, yes maybe but if you disagree with what they are doing I think it is important to voice your objection. The phrase 'not in my name' should be shouted out on regular occasions.

And just as an aside, to hopefully convince you that I am not 'Anti Brit'; my Grandfather was a Lt Col in the Scots Guards, he joined the Army at an early age as a Private or whatever the entry level is for the Guards. He fought in the 2nd World War and was part of one of  the original Special Forces, he is a famous name in the Scots Guards and mentioned many times in their history books.

My brother was a squaddie, amonst other things he was in Bosnia at the height of the action. Don't know too much about what went on as he still doesn't want to talk about the details.

So no agenda here, just call it as I see it and believe that if everyone did the same the world would be a better, safer and more honest place.

No problem, in all honesty I get miffed at the amount of "govts are this, politicians are that, this country is crap" shit all over the place and find myself screaming at my screen for them to stop spouting on a forum and go and try and make a difference themselves, it's not so easy.

Your father must have been some man to make Lt Col from the ranks. I was Royal Scots and we had 1 who made full Colonel from the ranks and was a top, top man.

Maybe message me with your dads name, I'd be interested to read his exploits.

Whilst I will always defend the soldiers, I rarely find myself in the position to defend politicians these days.

Geo

[highmile]

My understanding is that Unionists don't particularly like the term Northern Ireland (because of the use of the word Ireland) any more than Nationalists do and as such prefer to use Ulster.  Initially when the country was being divided the idea was that all of Ulster would remain British but eventually it was decided that the other three counties were too Nationalist in outlook for that to work

So I could have been a Pro UK Government Unionists and Geo would have also been surprised if I had used the term Ulster?

No.  Unionists use the term all the time....I get the sense sometimes they use it just because they know the nationalists don't like it. 

highmile,

I tried to keep it simple, thinking that with all your previous posts against the Government that you were well versed on these things. Redarmi has explained it well enough and as he says I would expect a pro uk government unionist to be more likely to use the term Ulster. Simillar to the usage of Londonderry/Derry, dependant on which part of the political divide you belong.

Nationalists use Derry whilst Unionists use Londonderry

Geo

Well I think I've got it now, thank you. And posts aganst the Government, yes maybe but if you disagree with what they are doing I think it is important to voice your objection. The phrase 'not in my name' should be shouted out on regular occasions.

And just as an aside, to hopefully convince you that I am not 'Anti Brit'; my Grandfather was a Lt Col in the Scots Guards, he joined the Army at an early age as a Private or whatever the entry level is for the Guards. He fought in the 2nd World War and was part of one of  the original Special Forces, he is a famous name in the Scots Guards and mentioned many times in their history books.

My brother was a squaddie, amonst other things he was in Bosnia at the height of the action. Don't know too much about what went on as he still doesn't want to talk about the details.

So no agenda here, just call it as I see it and believe that if everyone did the same the world would be a better, safer and more honest place.

No problem, in all honesty I get miffed at the amount of "govts are this, politicians are that, this country is crap" shit all over the place and find myself screaming at my screen for them to stop spouting on a forum and go and try and make a difference themselves, it's not so easy.

Your father must have been some man to make Lt Col from the ranks. I was Royal Scots and we had 1 who made full Colonel from the ranks and was a top, top man.

Maybe message me with your dads name, I'd be interested to read his exploits.

Whilst I will always defend the soldiers, I rarely find myself in the position to defend politicians these days.

Geo

Message sent. It was my Grandad not my Dad though....although my Dad's story would be more appropriate to the latter part of this thread but maybe that's for another day.

[highmile]

Right, now I'm getting more confused -  which is often the way when you look to deeply into things! So if the Unionists don't like the term Ulster why do they have the Ulster Unionists and the Ulster Volunteer Force?

[redarmi]

You are getting confused - the Unionists use the term Ulster.  It is the Nationalists that don't.

[action man]

Has anyone ever been tried as a War criminal when they won a war?

Wisest words I heard for a long time.

Don't read too much into what I typed. It was a genuine question, not some stunning political point

Wisest words I've heard for a long time.

ROFL, spat out drink