Cashmans bookies ceases trading.

[Karabiner]

In fact 10 years ago Stan James were different class.

The best bookmaker around, leading in the way with betting in running and innovative markets none of their competitors would offer.

They are now a pathetic joke.

I used to bet golf with them in-running via teletext.

[redarmi]

the problem is most of the degens who do heaps in the machines can't read so can't study form for a race or even appreciate horse/dog racing. I don't see where the next generation of punters will come from.

Ban Betfair is the only solution.

Now now Keef. No need for sarcasm. Hehe. But it is an interesting situation the industry is in now.

Exchanges are obviously here for good but so are fobts or 5000 shops will close. I wonder now if senior number crunchers realised this all those years ago when betfair first started? Like they thought betting shops are now gonna be in trouble with these margins lets give them another revenue stream.

Roll on Cheltenham. Definitely had enough of this all weather dross.

Not being sarcastic at all.

Before Betfair I was a bigger winner despite being a worse punter and I never had an account shut.

Bookmakers were bookmakers and laid a bet.

Now they are (justifiably) scared, because they assume anyone who is betting with them at on out of line price is arbing.

Accounts get shut as fast as we can open them.

You try and get more than a score on in the shops and they run for cover.

The game at the lower lowers levels is now rancid as Jess Ennis because it's more lucrative to cheat than to to try to win.

It's a crying shame.

Betfair has killed bookmakers and ultimately will kill horse racing as we know it.

This is a good post in general but I disagree a bit.  A lot of things have happened which have changed the landscape.  Once if you wanted a bet then you could bet over the phone but realistically if you wanted to watch a race then you went into a shop to do it and you got the exact same product so everyone used shops.  Now you are effectively penalised in 95% of cases by getting a worse price if you use your local shop and you dont have to go there to watch the race because you can watch it at home so the incentive to use shops to bet on racing is removed.  The problem with this is that betting shops were, in most cases, the thing that introduced us to racing (and dog racing for that matter) and now young people are not getting that introduction in the same way and almost every serious punter just doesn't use the shops anymore.  The only reason to use a shop is to get something that you can't get elsewhere and that is generally a bad thing for the shops.  With the exception of some of the older guys that still use them as a form of social club and are never going to  sit at home punting on betfair the shops now resemble Wetherspoons pubs in terms of their clientele and I think they are probably largely on the way out because offering their sports and racing product through them doesn't make a great deal of sense in terms of costs (ie it doesn't make much sense to pay 50k a year to run a shop when they can bet with you and watch the race on their smartphone).  I think eventually the lobbying against the FOBT's will lead to some kind of legislation restricting them and then the shops are probably largely done.

[redarmi]

Oh and sorry to see Cashmans go.  Paul Cashman was a decent bloke and proper bookmaker.

[doubleup]

the problem is most of the degens who do heaps in the machines can't read so can't study form for a race or even appreciate horse/dog racing. I don't see where the next generation of punters will come from.

Ban Betfair is the only solution.

Now now Keef. No need for sarcasm. Hehe. But it is an interesting situation the industry is in now.

Exchanges are obviously here for good but so are fobts or 5000 shops will close. I wonder now if senior number crunchers realised this all those years ago when betfair first started? Like they thought betting shops are now gonna be in trouble with these margins lets give them another revenue stream.

Roll on Cheltenham. Definitely had enough of this all weather dross.

Not being sarcastic at all.

Before Betfair I was a bigger winner despite being a worse punter and I never had an account shut.

Bookmakers were bookmakers and laid a bet.

Now they are (justifiably) scared, because they assume anyone who is betting with them at on out of line price is arbing.

Accounts get shut as fast as we can open them.

You try and get more than a score on in the shops and they run for cover.

The game at the lower lowers levels is now rancid as Jess Ennis because it's more lucrative to cheat than to to try to win.

It's a crying shame.

Betfair has killed bookmakers and ultimately will kill horse racing as we know it.

Betfair has nothing to do with it.  The internet has increased competition and the b&m setup of the traditional bookie can't compete.  They are only there because of FOBTS which imo should be severely restricted or banned.  Roulette was restricted to casinos pre-fobts for good reasons.  Its redic that these machines with a far higher speed of play than a casino are available so easily.

[The Camel]

the problem is most of the degens who do heaps in the machines can't read so can't study form for a race or even appreciate horse/dog racing. I don't see where the next generation of punters will come from.

Ban Betfair is the only solution.

Now now Keef. No need for sarcasm. Hehe. But it is an interesting situation the industry is in now.

Exchanges are obviously here for good but so are fobts or 5000 shops will close. I wonder now if senior number crunchers realised this all those years ago when betfair first started? Like they thought betting shops are now gonna be in trouble with these margins lets give them another revenue stream.

Roll on Cheltenham. Definitely had enough of this all weather dross.

Not being sarcastic at all.

Before Betfair I was a bigger winner despite being a worse punter and I never had an account shut.

Bookmakers were bookmakers and laid a bet.

Now they are (justifiably) scared, because they assume anyone who is betting with them at on out of line price is arbing.

Accounts get shut as fast as we can open them.

You try and get more than a score on in the shops and they run for cover.

The game at the lower lowers levels is now rancid as Jess Ennis because it's more lucrative to cheat than to to try to win.

It's a crying shame.

Betfair has killed bookmakers and ultimately will kill horse racing as we know it.

This is a good post in general but I disagree a bit.  A lot of things have happened which have changed the landscape.  Once if you wanted a bet then you could bet over the phone but realistically if you wanted to watch a race then you went into a shop to do it and you got the exact same product so everyone used shops.  Now you are effectively penalised in 95% of cases by getting a worse price if you use your local shop and you dont have to go there to watch the race because you can watch it at home so the incentive to use shops to bet on racing is removed.  The problem with this is that betting shops were, in most cases, the thing that introduced us to racing (and dog racing for that matter) and now young people are not getting that introduction in the same way and almost every serious punter just doesn't use the shops anymore.  The only reason to use a shop is to get something that you can't get elsewhere and that is generally a bad thing for the shops.  With the exception of some of the older guys that still use them as a form of social club and are never going to  sit at home punting on betfair the shops now resemble Wetherspoons pubs in terms of their clientele and I think they are probably largely on the way out because offering their sports and racing product through them doesn't make a great deal of sense in terms of costs (ie it doesn't make much sense to pay 50k a year to run a shop when they can bet with you and watch the race on their smartphone).  I think eventually the lobbying against the FOBT's will lead to some kind of legislation restricting them and then the shops are probably largely done.

Fair enough, Betfair isn't to blame for betting shop malaise.

But they are to blame for so much bent racing and the ridiculous restrictions bookmakers make on marginally winning accounts.

Impossible Tikay would have had accounts closed/restricted pre Betfair.

[gouty]

In fact 10 years ago Stan James were different class.

The best bookmaker around, leading in the way with betting in running and innovative markets none of their competitors would offer.

They are now a pathetic joke.

Funny that. Ten years ago I took their price feed in my shop. I did my nuts in ante post. Their odds compilers were useless especially football. After 18 months I gave up and went back to my old lot.

[redarmi]

In fact 10 years ago Stan James were different class.

The best bookmaker around, leading in the way with betting in running and innovative markets none of their competitors would offer.

They are now a pathetic joke.

Funny that. Ten years ago I took their price feed in my shop. I did my nuts in ante post. Their odds compilers were useless especially football. After 18 months I gave up and went back to my old lot.

Interesting.  Their odds compiler from that period was a VERY successful punter and good judge but just goes to show that the skillset to be a good bookmaker and punter are not totally complimentary.

[gouty]

Erm. Fundamentally Betfair has everything to do with it. But they are here now and that's that.

My shop is as busy as ever if not busier but the gross profit margin on horse racing has halved and the cost to show it has tripled. As Cashmans have no fobts to make up for this loss of revenue they have gone as will many more Irish bookies and also UK shops if they bin the machines.

Can any government make a decision that will lose over 25,000 jobs overnight? I think not.

Hence my original point that the whole industry is relying on them now and they are here to stay.

[aaron1867]

I am not sure whether I can blame Betfair, they have created something new in the sector & others have not adjusted, imo.

Horse racing is dying though, everytime I use the shop bookies I must be the only young person having a bet on the horses and sometimes dogs too, questionable to see where it will be in 10-15 years time.

[Karabiner]

I am not sure whether I can blame Betfair, they have created something new in the sector & others have not adjusted, imo.

Horse racing is dying though, everytime I use the shop bookies I must be the only young person having a bet on the horses and sometimes dogs too, questionable to see where it will be in 10-15 years time.

Horse-racing is not dying although betting on horses in betting-shops definitely is.

Greyhound racing on the other hand...

[redarmi]

I am not sure whether I can blame Betfair, they have created something new in the sector & others have not adjusted, imo.

Horse racing is dying though, everytime I use the shop bookies I must be the only young person having a bet on the horses and sometimes dogs too, questionable to see where it will be in 10-15 years time.

Not a case of blaming Betfair as such but they are one of the key reasons shops are dying.

[gouty]

I am not sure whether I can blame Betfair, they have created something new in the sector & others have not adjusted, imo.

Horse racing is dying though, everytime I use the shop bookies I must be the only young person having a bet on the horses and sometimes dogs too, questionable to see where it will be in 10-15 years time.

We have adjusted as far as we can. Do you have any ideas?

The big 3 are adjusting by advertising every type of revenue stream except UK horses. I disagree that horse racing is dying. We are still as busy but can't make any money on it.