Dtd day1, sigh spot

[toddswain]

Got myself into abit of a lame spot yesterday. Be good to see wt people think is the best line to take.

Ok so we are playing 150/300.

HJ has 30k+
C/o has 22k 
i have 29k on the button.

My reads on the two players are they are both playing pretty similar, playing pretty loose but reasonably face up post flop. HJ is very obviously tilting at recent hands, bleeding 8k


HJ opens to 650 and CO peels, i make it 1850 otb with ... Feel like this maybe a mistake, and if i do 3b it needs to be more.


Both peel, flop comes 


HJ leads 2100, CO makes it 5300.... We ??



Not worried about H/J, expect c/o can raise fold here prob about 15/20% of time due to recent hands, dont expect him to fold AT + though

[stato_1]

Think 3bet pre seems pretty bad, not getting any folds ever and we have 5high. If he's tilting I'm very happy just peeling. As played I'm raising and getting it in. Think we get some folds from some far stronger hands than you think

[TL900]

Def down with peeling, but I am more peel happy than 3bet happy in general, that might be a leak though.

Get it in now with all the dead money etc.

[SuuPRlim]

yh +1 no need to 3bet flick it in and try ping something.

Get it in now, great lil hand, impossible to be dominated etc. (well not IMPOSSIBLE but as gd as )

[toddswain]

Do we prefer making it like 10k, or just shoving now ?


But yea, defo realised the 3b was bad/needless

[corkeye]

Yeah you have so much equity now just get as many chips in the middle as poss. But usually I fold pre here.

[gouty]

Fold pre. You have 95 bb with 5 high.

As played fold now. This is a tournament not a cash game. You already stated they play their hands face up post flop so why flip your entire stack?

In fact pre flop play is bananas. You are now in Mystic Meg territory on flop in position. Calling is awful. Any raise is shit as you can't really rep a set due to pre flop play.

Fold.

[Doobs]

yh +1 no need to 3bet flick it in and try ping something.

Get it in now, great lil hand, impossible to be dominated etc. (well not IMPOSSIBLE but as gd as )

Just feels you could be drawing dead or facing a set an uncomfortable amount of the time here.  Rest we are mostly flipping with quite a bit of dead money.  Can confirm it is a sigh spot and would hate it live!

[JustinSayne]

Fold and dont tell anyone how incredibly pretty your hand was.

Very likely we have close to 0 fold equity vs a range that we are gonna be 25-30% vs most of the time

[toddswain]

Yea, hated life so much otf, tanked for an age, obv got it in vs c/o and he had .... Marv. Didnt even get to sweat two streets when the  peeled off.

[LonOhRay]

Feel like you have so many opportunities to squeeze in these comps that there's no need to do it with 5 high at this stage. If you were, yes sizing has to be much bigger, you don't want to be called let alone in two spots. - Peel pre all day though

As played echo the above, very meh, if you feel like a gamble not going to be bad to stick it in and re-enter.

But with so little invested and so much play later on I have sided with letting these spots go. Folding with 0 risk and maintaining 27k in this mtt is a lot more valuable than getting it in vs sets and bigger flush draws. You just know Axss is never folding and if someone somehow has a set, too, you're dead.

[MANTIS01]

I think the 5 high aspect of ur hand is pretty irrelevant cos ur not 3betting for value, you either want to get folds or set up folds for later. What I do think is relevant is both villains are playing loose and one is tilting/bleeding chips so they prob aren't the best candidates for this kind of coup. Also relevant to this end what ur image is like but that isn't mentioned. The more active you been the less appealing this is. Would just fold pre but as played before it gets back to you the one dude has 1/3 of his chips in the pot and is raising a donk from the other and they both play their hands face up.

[Nit Tendencies]

I definitely don't think the 3bet is as bad as the rest of the world (if I do 3bet I make it like 2400 AT LEAST though), but I do think peeling is a much better option.

Once we get to this spot, I would expect the guy who has led to have a shit draw or some kind of pair that he is betting to make his decisions easier. The guy who has raised can have plenty of draws which we are slightly ahead of, and might be doing that stupid "find out where you are" thing, and will fold when you 3bet the flop. Your range looms insanely strong when you 3bet the flop here, and we have plenty of equity, so I'd make it like 12k and call it off. I prefer making it 12k rather than shoving because he can peel one off and fold the turn this way (unlikely but not impossible) and might be a retard and put a draw in, but also think you are really strong doing this and fold his pair hands.

Never underestimate how poorly people can play, regardless of how well they might have been playing up till now.

[discomonkey]

Have spoken to Todd about this and i basically dislike most of this hand....

3betting 54s is ok at best vs  fish who arent going to fold much we are going to spend a lot of the time bluffing or when we hit we just have such a hard life that it makes it not really worth it, granted im sure we take down the pot a decent amount post on axx type boards, but im just not a fan, why give yourself a headache in a high variance spot in a live donkament when you just do not need to.

The flop is a fold for me and even though it looks like we havea  great hand we actually don't in the context of this spot.
we are in a 3bet pot on a super coordinated board and the most out of position guy leads (we have established he is pretty fishy but plays his hands face up) and then another guy of similar ilk raises.
Our options are (sorry to state the obvious) fold/11kcall/call/shove. It could be argued that there are few few times we will be drawing dead (ie they have a set and a combo draw between them) but i dont think that is really a very good argument for getting it in.

shove: if as todd suggests we get a fold about 15% of the time, that means we pick up the 15k 15% of the time and add 50% to our stack. I doubt that these 2 players are looking at folding when they make these plays in this 3bet pot oop so i would suggest that 15% is a maximum amount of folds we can hope to get here, especially when the co has raised to ~25% of his stack. If we shove and get called we are almost never a favorite and vs any range that calls a shove we are crushed pretty hard. Risking our still 100bb stack at this point on such a high variance and quite possibly losing play is not something i would advise here. Lets not forget we have 2 straight up players on our direct right which has to mean there will be good situations to accumulate chips in lower variance ways.

Call: meh not sure there is an argument worth making for calling, guy who lead into 2 people in a 3bet pot (and plays his hands face up) is to act behind us if we flat 15% of our remaining chips with bottom pair and a poor flush draw..... turn will be shit mostly and we will have to fold and even if we hit we might lose.

11k/call: this isnt a viable option either, if we raise/call we are more dead than we would be if we got called when shoving.... if we get flatted and brick turns hit then we havent a clue what to do.

Fold: clear favorite for me. we are in position on 2 straight up players, this is a $300f so we should have an edge (i know todds game, he does have an edge in this mtt) on plenty of the field. The chances of us being ahead if the cards are on their backs is almost nil, the chances of us getting a fold are slim and by getting it in we would literally be gambling imo..... just because a hand looks good when the cards come out, does not mean it is good when the action is on you, the action before us makes such a huge difference that we just cant be in the mindset of "i have hit one of the nut flops for my hand i cant fold now" ..... its the same logic that makes fish call on 67892 boards with aa when all the signs point to them being beat. The simplest way to put it imo..... think of all the situations you like if you a) shove b) call etc etc.... in this case the only thing that works out well is "we shove and get a fold" given how little that is happening its a clear fold

[Sulphur man]

Fold pre. You have 95 bb with 5 high.

As played fold now. This is a tournament not a cash game. You already stated they play their hands face up post flop so why flip your entire stack?

In fact pre flop play is bananas. You are now in Mystic Meg territory on flop in position. Calling is awful. Any raise is shit as you can't really rep a set due to pre flop play.

Fold.

/\ This. Leave these play's to the millionaire's/Brazilian's.