Deep in Big 11 Decision

[jjandellis]

Sitting 28/64

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $14,000(BB) Poker Stars
SB ($85,650)
BB ($631,667)
UTG ($741,633)
UTG+1 ($139,014)
UTG+2 ($180,976)
MP1 ($570,908)
Hero ($407,166)
BTN ($579,670)

Dealt to Hero 

fold, fold, fold, MP1 raises to $28,000, Hero raises to $56,000, fold, fold, fold, MP1 raises to $569,158

Only got 35 hands on villain 17/17/6 (and 4bet range 11.4%).

We?

[pleno1]

Huh what else can we do?

[JustinSayne]

The only decision is how many times we fist pump before calling

[Ironside]

We time bank while we go for a smoke and a beer, run round room kicking the cat, and call getting abuse for the slow roll

[Rexas]

We ask the guy for his phone number, and apologise for the amount of time it's taken us to win the hand, and ask him if he would like to play us HU for rolls

[rfgqqabc]

Call but not very happy at all.

[BulldozerD]

well i'm not folding

[mulhuzz]

directly order a jaegerbomb, high five the dealer and sllide your chips in the middle.

wait, what? this isn't live poker?

then I guess we press the middle button with a 'c' on it....

[rfgqqabc]

Haha sorry was so tired last night was not really getting to the nub of what I meant.

a. The 3 bet ok to induce the shove?
b. Or do u prefer to just 3bet shove in this spot with these stacks?
c. Do u ever prefer see a flop? ie. what sort of vpip/pfr does the villain need to have for u to flat rather than go crazy pre?

3bet size is fine, deeper on the more fold equity the smaller we can make it. In position with a strong hand we can 54-66k fine, personally I'd go ~58k
b. The shove is big, we want to keep his 4bet bluffs in. 3bet shoves for many bigs is generally used with a hand that plays poorly vs 4b bluffs, ie I might 3bet shove 77 for 22 bigs instead of 3bet/calling like I would with AK because his bluffs like AT/KQ/JTs etc etc are flipping vs us and we make the most chips by getting folds from this part of his range.

3bet > flat this spot unless we have extremely good reads, or an abundance of squeeze heavy opponents/short stacks. I,e i might flat with 4 shorties behind, hoping we get a jam and a rejam from the initial raiser who has say AT, which might fold if the action goes raise, 3bet, shortie jam he folds and we call. Also might be correct to flat later on when ICM considerations become significant, typically when its big stack vs big stack.

There is also an argument for flatting vs extremely tight 4 bettors, who will rarely 4bet worse hands, fold dominated hands and fold to many 3bets. Vs these opponents we should 3 bet extremely polarised like in cash, and allow our postflop position + extremely good hand which dominates our opponents range. However, this is a hard read to get in a single tournament and applies when deeper. With these stack sizes the chips earned by 3bet/calling will be greater that flatting. Vs this sort of opponent we should 3bet bluff more but play hands like AQ/AK JJ/TT cautiously, because we play poorly versus his 4bet range but make  a bunch of money/chips by playing the streets versus with a domineering range.

[mulhuzz]

Haha sorry was so tired last night was not really getting to the nub of what I meant.

a. The 3 bet ok to induce the shove?
b. Or do u prefer to just 3bet shove in this spot with these stacks?
c. Do u ever prefer see a flop? ie. what sort of vpip/pfr does the villain need to have for u to flat rather than go crazy pre?

3bet size is fine, deeper on the more fold equity the smaller we can make it. In position with a strong hand we can 54-66k fine, personally I'd go ~58k
b. The shove is big, we want to keep his 4bet bluffs in. 3bet shoves for many bigs is generally used with a hand that plays poorly vs 4b bluffs, ie I might 3bet shove 77 for 22 bigs instead of 3bet/calling like I would with AK because his bluffs like AT/KQ/JTs etc etc are flipping vs us and we make the most chips by getting folds from this part of his range.

3bet > flat this spot unless we have extremely good reads, or an abundance of squeeze heavy opponents/short stacks. I,e i might flat with 4 shorties behind, hoping we get a jam and a rejam from the initial raiser who has say AT, which might fold if the action goes raise, 3bet, shortie jam he folds and we call. Also might be correct to flat later on when ICM considerations become significant, typically when its big stack vs big stack.

There is also an argument for flatting vs extremely tight 4 bettors, who will rarely 4bet worse hands, fold dominated hands and fold to many 3bets. Vs these opponents we should 3 bet extremely polarised like in cash, and allow our postflop position + extremely good hand which dominates our opponents range. However, this is a hard read to get in a single tournament and applies when deeper. With these stack sizes the chips earned by 3bet/calling will be greater that flatting. Vs this sort of opponent we should 3bet bluff more but play hands like AQ/AK JJ/TT cautiously, because we play poorly versus his 4bet range but make  a bunch of money/chips by playing the streets versus with a domineering range.

Beautiful, thanks very much Adam.  Nicely written.

Well I called, he had AQ...he flops his Q but I flopped straight draw and turned nut flush draw..bricks river...sigh..gg g'night!

if you'd ordered that jaegerbomb you'd have won

[wazz]

3b sizing fine and now spaff your chips in as quickly as possible, possibly also playing AQs this way, we're < 30bb deep!