Thoughts on checking turn with trips

[shipitgood]

I have   OTB , blinds are 20/40 deepstack game (I have 5k about starting stack)

UTG limps (they limp every hand/ call big raises), it folds to me, I do something I never do, I limped my 10j os. (Blinds are pretty passive)

Small blind calls, bb checks.

Flop,  

SB Checks, BB bets 40 (min bet), UTG calls, I raise to 180, SB folds, BB calls, other player folds.

Turn is  , Bb Checks I check behind ? Thoughts? Did it for deception hard for them 2 call with worse.

River is  

Villian bets 160!! I repop it to 1040, they shove for 3k total. I call they show a pair of .

Just looking for opinions on limping OTB pre/ line on Turn, thanks

[lucky_scrote]

I wouldn't fold preflop for sure. I probably just over-limp as well.

I think I check the turn if my internet cut out and I'm forced to.

[shipitgood]

Yeah probably pretty bad checking the turn!

[lucky_scrote]

When T drops it means he's going to have a flush draw tons and that you're obv more likely to have the best hand now. I'd prob just bomb the turn really hard.

[polerization]

i hate limping think its really passive so i probably squeeze the limper especially if the blinds aren't going to 3-bet me, agree that he can have a ton of draws probs bomb the turn.

[Rexas]

Right, I was typing out a reply to this and my bloody phone went dead, so lets try again...

Pre - I tend to isolate pre with this sorts of hands, in an attempt to get heads up, in position with the betting lead, which is of course a very nice situation to be in.

Flop - As played, I probably don't raise this hand on the flop. I guess this is more down to personal preference though, raising is probably fine, although I rarely would raise top pair poor kicker for value in this particular spot, where preflop ranges can be very, very wide.

Turn - We absolutely have to bet this turn card if checked to, whether because we took the betting lead on the flop or not. We get another street from absolutely any pair, since many players feel like this card improves their one pair hands, since it is now less likely that we have a 10. We continue to charge players to draw, and allow them to make a mistake by calling this bet on the worst possible card for their drawing hands. We also build a pot with a hand that has now become a legitimate value hand, meaning that if our opponent does want to bluff catch with a one pair hand, we are making them pay the absolute most to do so. I think a great many people, myself included, would be considerably better off if they didn't try and make people fold pairs. For this exact reason, that people can get very sticky to one pair hands especially when top pair pairs up, we can confidently set up going for three streets of value of exactly the sort of hand that the villain actually has, because it is in fact quite easy for them to call with worse. In short, this is the absolute nut card for us to continue, and the value that we miss in these situations will definitely mount up and affect our ability to build stacks in these tournaments.

River - Raising the lead is obvs fine, although our sizing seems a little crazy. Pot is what, 520 before the river, right? So when he leads, pot is 680, and we make it 1040, nearly double pot!

When we make river bets, we need to consider our opponents range and have a very clear idea of the purpose of our bet. In this instance, we would like a call off a relatively weak range (i.e. a one pair type hand, maybe A high). We might think that we are polarising ourselves by betting this much, but what we actually do is frighten off exactly those sorts of hands. By making it a little smaller, we give ourselves a better chance of them making that hero call. I'm pretty surprised that we get shown a worse hand here after they shove, would feel like we're chopping that pot like all the time. I would think it's very, very rare for us to find someone wanting to make a bluff against this sizing, and I was certainly pretty surprised to see them turn a hand this good into a bluff, where we actually had a really good go at making them fold. I know it worked out in this exact hand, but I do think against the majority of people we would miss value.

Probably going to get ripped for that little paragraph, so DISCLAIMER obvs this is all imo, please don't hurt me for it. I'm off to find a corner to hide in.

[shipitgood]

Right, I was typing out a reply to this and my bloody phone went dead, so lets try again...

Pre - I tend to isolate pre with this sorts of hands, in an attempt to get heads up, in position with the betting lead, which is of course a very nice situation to be in.

Flop - As played, I probably don't raise this hand on the flop. I guess this is more down to personal preference though, raising is probably fine, although I rarely would raise top pair poor kicker for value in this particular spot, where preflop ranges can be very, very wide.

Turn - We absolutely have to bet this turn card if checked to, whether because we took the betting lead on the flop or not. We get another street from absolutely any pair, since many players feel like this card improves their one pair hands, since it is now less likely that we have a 10. We continue to charge players to draw, and allow them to make a mistake by calling this bet on the worst possible card for their drawing hands. We also build a pot with a hand that has now become a legitimate value hand, meaning that if our opponent does want to bluff catch with a one pair hand, we are making them pay the absolute most to do so. I think a great many people, myself included, would be considerably better off if they didn't try and make people fold pairs. For this exact reason, that people can get very sticky to one pair hands especially when top pair pairs up, we can confidently set up going for three streets of value of exactly the sort of hand that the villain actually has, because it is in fact quite easy for them to call with worse. In short, this is the absolute nut card for us to continue, and the value that we miss in these situations will definitely mount up and affect our ability to build stacks in these tournaments.

River - Raising the lead is obvs fine, although our sizing seems a little crazy. Pot is what, 520 before the river, right? So when he leads, pot is 680, and we make it 1040, nearly double pot!

When we make river bets, we need to consider our opponents range and have a very clear idea of the purpose of our bet. In this instance, we would like a call off a relatively weak range (i.e. a one pair type hand, maybe A high). We might think that we are polarising ourselves by betting this much, but what we actually do is frighten off exactly those sorts of hands. By making it a little smaller, we give ourselves a better chance of them making that hero call. I'm pretty surprised that we get shown a worse hand here after they shove, would feel like we're chopping that pot like all the time. I would think it's very, very rare for us to find someone wanting to make a bluff against this sizing, and I was certainly pretty surprised to see them turn a hand this good into a bluff, where we actually had a really good go at making them fold. I know it worked out in this exact hand, but I do think against the majority of people we would miss value.

Probably going to get ripped for that little paragraph, so DISCLAIMER obvs this is all imo, please don't hurt me for it. I'm off to find a corner to hide in.

Not at all, very nice post.

I've just looked at this hand, I played it really bad, and just got lucky my opponent played the river pretty terrible.

My first mistake was limping - like I said in my original post I never do this. It seems recently, there is a lot more limping than usual. I played a tournie a few nights ago and there was 2 players on the table who would limp 90 plus % of hands, call any raise, and found it real difficult to fold post flop.

I had watched a video from a good MTT player, and he was talking about "limping ranges" and limped a hand like 10J os, over 2 limpers (was a 9 handed game)

Thought I would give it a go. Looking at this hand don't like it at all, you have no idea where you are in the hand.

On the flop, i raise to take control of the hand plus there 40 lead (into 160) looks so weak.

On the turn is pretty horrendous. This is the type of move i used to make 6 months ago and is definatly a mistake. I'm just missing out on so much value and need to build a pot for the river/ protect against draws. Like you said Rexas the 10 is the nut card for me on the turn.

On the river, the player bets 140, into 520 a ridiculously small bet. The player is inexperienced.

I know they have something, and am pretty sure they will call a river bet. Never putting them on a 10 here. I was thinking a 5 might be a big part of their range here. I didn't see them folding, especially if they had a 5 ( that would be the nuts to them, and they never put me on a 10). I decide to overbet the pot, pot plus 1/3rd. I was pretty confident i'd get a call (from this player)

[polerization]

Right, I was typing out a reply to this and my bloody phone went dead, so lets try again...

Pre - I tend to isolate pre with this sorts of hands, in an attempt to get heads up, in position with the betting lead, which is of course a very nice situation to be in.

Flop - As played, I probably don't raise this hand on the flop. I guess this is more down to personal preference though, raising is probably fine, although I rarely would raise top pair poor kicker for value in this particular spot, where preflop ranges can be very, very wide.

Turn - We absolutely have to bet this turn card if checked to, whether because we took the betting lead on the flop or not. We get another street from absolutely any pair, since many players feel like this card improves their one pair hands, since it is now less likely that we have a 10. We continue to charge players to draw, and allow them to make a mistake by calling this bet on the worst possible card for their drawing hands. We also build a pot with a hand that has now become a legitimate value hand, meaning that if our opponent does want to bluff catch with a one pair hand, we are making them pay the absolute most to do so. I think a great many people, myself included, would be considerably better off if they didn't try and make people fold pairs. For this exact reason, that people can get very sticky to one pair hands especially when top pair pairs up, we can confidently set up going for three streets of value of exactly the sort of hand that the villain actually has, because it is in fact quite easy for them to call with worse. In short, this is the absolute nut card for us to continue, and the value that we miss in these situations will definitely mount up and affect our ability to build stacks in these tournaments.

River - Raising the lead is obvs fine, although our sizing seems a little crazy. Pot is what, 520 before the river, right? So when he leads, pot is 680, and we make it 1040, nearly double pot!

When we make river bets, we need to consider our opponents range and have a very clear idea of the purpose of our bet. In this instance, we would like a call off a relatively weak range (i.e. a one pair type hand, maybe A high). We might think that we are polarising ourselves by betting this much, but what we actually do is frighten off exactly those sorts of hands. By making it a little smaller, we give ourselves a better chance of them making that hero call. I'm pretty surprised that we get shown a worse hand here after they shove, would feel like we're chopping that pot like all the time. I would think it's very, very rare for us to find someone wanting to make a bluff against this sizing, and I was certainly pretty surprised to see them turn a hand this good into a bluff, where we actually had a really good go at making them fold. I know it worked out in this exact hand, but I do think against the majority of people we would miss value.

Probably going to get ripped for that little paragraph, so DISCLAIMER obvs this is all imo, please don't hurt me for it. I'm off to find a corner to hide in.

Agree with all this little long winded rexas

My first mistake was limping - like I said in my original post I never do this. It seems recently, there is a lot more limping than usual. I played a tournie a few nights ago and there was 2 players on the table who would limp 90 plus % of hands, call any raise, and found it real difficult to fold post flop.
[/quote]

I've also seen a lot of videos were good MTT players limp, i really don't like it though find it puts me in tough spots post and also i like to be aggressive so find it's good to iso one limper big who you can outplay post.

[willrobrobu]

think you will find that most attempts to isolate here preflop (at 20/40 with a 5k stack) will fail. what are you raising to? 120-160?  you will just get called and inflate the pot. its obviously never bad cos you gain betting lead but being so deep i think that is a little less important. prefer to limp and simply play in position cautiously unless you smash the flop/later streets - as you do on the turn where you gotta bet imo

[Rexas]

think you will find that most attempts to isolate here preflop (at 20/40 with a 5k stack) will fail. what are you raising to? 120-160?  you will just get called and inflate the pot. its obviously never bad cos you gain betting lead but being so deep i think that is a little less important. prefer to limp and simply play in position cautiously unless you smash the flop/later streets - as you do on the turn where you gotta bet imo

I'm not so sure the iso doesn't work, because the SB will flick it in with any old shit for the extra 20 for fear of being called a nit in the chatbox, and the BB can have literally any two. Sure if they both wake up with playable hands then we could end up getting two overcalls, and in this case 88 obvs doesn't fold, but even if that does happen then we're in the best spot at the table to deal with it, and have a pretty reasonable hand. I don't mind limping, just a personal preference thing and a quick explanation of why :p

[lucky_scrote]

It's fine to ISO or limp, but with stacks so deep and hand is pretty weak I prob limp when playing a ton of tables.

[titaniumbean]

ya I think limping is fine with such deep stacks, happy to play a mutli way limped pot with people who regularly get their limpy on.


think checking the turn has more value in a raised pot where the ranges are more defined, as is they can have so many hands think the turn is a must bet.