Fergie Time: The unwritten laws of sport

[moustache]

You missed the biggest one bud. In Green Bay the refs allow any Packers player that scores a TD to jump into the crowd and stay there until he decides he has had enough pats in the head/beer dropped on him/ hugs. The officials and visiting team just have to hang around until this ritual known as the 'Lambeau leap' has finished before the game can restart. Given penalties are given for  delaying the game, celebrating too hard and group celebrations everywhere else in the league it is quite ridiculous that they don't apply to Green Bay players that score TD's at Lambeau.

I believe the "Lambeau Leap" is grandfathered into the rules. Because it was so popular before the excessive celebration rule came into being the NFL allows it.

Sort of like I'm told Little Darlings in Las Vegas is allowed to have dancers go totally naked, but all other strip clubs are topless only.

I call that bluff

[bunnydas8888]

When a player fouls by potting the white in a snooker frame his opponent then gets to place the white ball in the D. On loads of occasions the player puts the white down and then starts moving it with his cue. Why is that not considered a foul once the player has placed the ball on the table?

I think (could be wrong) its because the ball is in hand, and a shot isn't considered to have been played until the tip of the cue has hit the cue ball or another foul committed (such as hitting one of the baulk colours).  I think the tip of the cue is defined as the actual tip (the fluffy bit that gets chalked) and possibly the metal bit which the tip is glued too.

Edit, just found this from the WPBSA website:

5. Playing from In-hand
To play from in-hand, the cue-ball must be struck from a position on or within the
lines of the “D”, but it may be played in any direction.
(a) The referee will state, if asked, whether the cue-ball is properly placed
(that is, not outside the lines of the “D”).
(b) If the tip of the cue should touch the cue-ball while positioning it, and the
referee is satisfied that the striker was not attempting to play a stroke,
then the cue-ball is not in play.

[bobby1]

When a player fouls by potting the white in a snooker frame his opponent then gets to place the white ball in the D. On loads of occasions the player puts the white down and then starts moving it with his cue. Why is that not considered a foul once the player has placed the ball on the table?

I think (could be wrong) its because the ball is in hand, and a shot isn't considered to have been played until the tip of the cue has hit the cue ball or another foul committed (such as hitting one of the baulk colours).  I think the tip of the cue is defined as the actual tip (the fluffy bit that gets chalked) and possibly the metal bit which the tip is glued too.

Edit, just found this from the WPBSA website:

5. Playing from In-hand
To play from in-hand, the cue-ball must be struck from a position on or within the
lines of the “D”, but it may be played in any direction.
(a) The referee will state, if asked, whether the cue-ball is properly placed
(that is, not outside the lines of the “D”).
(b) If the tip of the cue should touch the cue-ball while positioning it, and the
referee is satisfied that the striker was not attempting to play a stroke,
then the cue-ball is not in play.

Cheers.

This happened in one of the early frames in yesterdays final. King had the ball in hand for the break off. He placed it next to the brown then lined up his break then jumped up and said 'I touched the white there'. The ref and his oppo didn't see it but he called it on himself. In rule D above if the player touches the ball with his tip when positioning it the ref can say he wasn't attempting to play a shot and the white ball is not deemed to be in play. If it can be deemed not in play why is it a foul here. (tho admittedly he was loosening his shoulder and getting ready to hit the white) but we are now saying he could have touched the white ball with his tip and realised he had done so, then continued the motion as tho he was re positioning the white and that wouldn't have been a foul because the ref can say he wasn't playing a shot.

In that spot it still seems weird he can roll the ball anywhere in the D even if he has left it in one position for a while with any part of his cue as many times as he wants without it being a penalty but if he touches it so gently with the tip it's a foul at the ref's discretion.

The strange thing tho is they then had a convo asking if it was only a foul if the ball left the D so neither of the players seemed to know the rule. Even stranger tho was how is it now not a free ball to Hawkins, his oppo has fouled and Hawkins can now not see both sides of any of the red balls because they are still in their triangle shape awaiting a legal break?

Any other time in the frame that situation would be a free ball.

Yours Confused ;o)

[bunnydas8888]

When a player fouls by potting the white in a snooker frame his opponent then gets to place the white ball in the D. On loads of occasions the player puts the white down and then starts moving it with his cue. Why is that not considered a foul once the player has placed the ball on the table?

I think (could be wrong) its because the ball is in hand, and a shot isn't considered to have been played until the tip of the cue has hit the cue ball or another foul committed (such as hitting one of the baulk colours).  I think the tip of the cue is defined as the actual tip (the fluffy bit that gets chalked) and possibly the metal bit which the tip is glued too.

Edit, just found this from the WPBSA website:

5. Playing from In-hand
To play from in-hand, the cue-ball must be struck from a position on or within the
lines of the “D”, but it may be played in any direction.
(a) The referee will state, if asked, whether the cue-ball is properly placed
(that is, not outside the lines of the “D”).
(b) If the tip of the cue should touch the cue-ball while positioning it, and the
referee is satisfied that the striker was not attempting to play a stroke,
then the cue-ball is not in play.

Cheers.

This happened in one of the early frames in yesterdays final. King had the ball in hand for the break off. He placed it next to the brown then lined up his break then jumped up and said 'I touched the white there'. The ref and his oppo didn't see it but he called it on himself. In rule D above if the player touches the ball with his tip when positioning it the ref can say he wasn't attempting to play a shot and the white ball is not deemed to be in play. If it can be deemed not in play why is it a foul here. (tho admittedly he was loosening his shoulder and getting ready to hit the white) but we are now saying he could have touched the white ball with his tip and realised he had done so, then continued the motion as tho he was re positioning the white and that wouldn't have been a foul because the ref can say he wasn't playing a shot.

In that spot it still seems weird he can roll the ball anywhere in the D even if he has left it in one position for a while with any part of his cue as many times as he wants without it being a penalty but if he touches it so gently with the tip it's a foul at the ref's discretion.

The strange thing tho is they then had a convo asking if it was only a foul if the ball left the D so neither of the players seemed to know the rule. Even stranger tho was how is it now not a free ball to Hawkins, his oppo has fouled and Hawkins can now not see both sides of any of the red balls because they are still in their triangle shape awaiting a legal break?

Any other time in the frame that situation would be a free ball.

Yours Confused ;o)

Wasn't a free ball has Hawkins could see "both" sides of the corner red. Probably a rule that neither know too much about as it gets used so rarely.  The reason I said initially that it was to do with the tip of the cue hitting the white was from rules in local pool leagues.  Assumed similar rules would carry over to snooker until I looked at the WPBSA website.

In terms of the rules as they are written, you could argue that King wasn't trying to position the cue ball, he had already done so and therefore was a foul.  If he was trying to position the cue ball you would assume/see his cue "rolling" the cue ball with his tip/cue, whereas he had clearly placed the white and was about to break off, just forgot his spacial awareness and fouled!