How long can it last?

[ACE2M]

Nice post red.

Couple of questions if i may?

What would have happened if you had gone broke/go broke? (are you alright for cash anyway?)

Are you happy at sitting at the computer for long periods of time and that being pretty much it? (how long do you spend?)

Did you give up a job to start or were you already without?


I have considered it before but have a decent job and don't think i could stick sitting in the house all day. I played tournaments, sattelites and the odd stt on the side for a period of 3 months towards the end of last year and managed to turn a profit of 14k.  The problem was everything else suffered, job, social life etc. I have to admit i was loving it and was playing better and better but i'm not good on a couple of hours sleep every night.

[RED-DOG]

Hi ACE

Wouldnt play untill I went broke, (family to feed) set a bankroll to one side to give it a try,

I had a small, 'one man' business that I can go back to if need be

I play between 8 and 10 hours most days but if I get to a final table or win one (I usualy play the bigger multis) I tend to take a few hours off because I find it hard to adjust back to the kind of play needed for the start of a tourney after the cut and thrust of a final

It was mostly a lifestyle thing for me, I've worked hard all my life and wanted to grab a little pleasure before its too late, "times winged chariot" and all that, my kids are a an age where they dont need me to be involved so much in ther lives any more, though strangely enough I spend more time with them now, and I have the worlds best wife. If poker became detrimental to my family in any way I would give it up in a heartbeat

I'm one of those people that dosnt need much sleep, always have been, even pre poker, I chug along fine on about 5/6 hours a night with the occasional 12 hour flakeout every now and then

I love it, and I intend to push it as far as I can

Wish me luck

Tom

[dan]

good luck red dog.
if you dont mind me asking what sort of stakes do you play for red?? is it mainly stt ot mtt you play?? just curious

[RED-DOG]

Hi Dan

mostly multis, $50 to $500, working on SNG's though

[ACE2M]

Thanks. Good luck.

[Splash]

Good post Red.

Regarding the question on going broke, as far as I am concerned the single most important aspect of full time / part time play is bank roll management. On one of the shows on the poker channel the other week someone said (cant remember who, may have been Mike C)

A fantastic player with poor bank roll management will make less money in the long run than an average player with fantastic bank roll management


Ive been playing for about 2years now and gradually worked my way up the ladder playing mainly cash games with the odd tournie dabble. Last Jan I toyed with the idea reducing my working week to 2 or 3 days and actually relying on Poker for income. I posted this thread on the HM forum and got a fantastic response from the community (thanks by the way, a few of you Junior etc asked for an update on progress , I guess this is it!!)  

http://www.thehendonmob.com/MobForum/read.php?f=1&i=39368&t=39368&v=t

In the end I bottled out for a few months, I kind of went half part time, electing to take some unpaid days here and there when I had a good month etc.

Things have been going pretty well and finally last month I bit the bullet and Im now down to half a week. Having to rely on poker to pay the rent / keep the mrs happy is a little scary, but it does help focus the mind.  Going part time at work does leave some doors open to me to return and it keeps my benefits and pension ticking over.

Out of my bank roll every month now I must pay the short fall in wages and top up my pension with the difference, that was the deal with the mrs (plus some DIY round the house )

The only thing that can ruin this new found life style that I love so much is going broke, as such over the past 6 months Ive worked out a fairly robust bank roll system to insure against that eventuality.

The only thing it needs to work is discipline. Harder than it sounds!!

Rule 1: Keep living money and poker money totally separate.
Rule 2: No leakage!! Roulette , BJ, the nags!
Rule 3: Keep detailed daily records.


Work on the principle of having two pots Main Bank roll and a Reserve.

I started out with a nominal figure as a main bank roll. For the sake of argument say 10k. Out of this I need to pay myself a wage of say 1k a month come hell or high water.

If I make more than the required 1k in a month. 50% of the excess is paid into the poker reserve (instant access high rate savings account) and 50% goes to the household slush fund for holidays and fun stuff for me and the Mrs.

Continue like this each month until the reserve gets to a comfortable level.... say 5k or maybe 10k?  You can only dip into the reserve when the main bank roll drops to 10% of its starting level (not happened yet, but got close once!!!)

Associated with the BR are strict rules on the level of game I can play. When it drops below 30% of its starting level I have to drop limits to protect the bank roll etc. Having the safety net of a reserve just takes the pressure off on a bad run and building it up in the manner outlined means you tuck away a little for a rainy day every time you have a good month.

To most of you I guess this sounds fairly draconian! It does need strict discipline to enforce, however it was set up to maintain my new lifestyle for as long as possible.

I cant imagine going back to full time work now and if I went bust thats what id have to do!!


GL

[Highstack]

Great post Dog. Nothing earth shattering there, but certainly worth reading good solid info like that from time to time to remind us all of the basics.

@ Jim, enjoyed that too mate. I need help here and I must come round to see your record keeping etc soon if that's ok (I promise not to look at the figures). I also want to watch you play on line if that's ok? I don't want you to adjust your style and tighten up etc because you think I am watching your play, but just to watch and discuss your moves as they happen.

Have you decided what you are doing about Luton yet? Are you staying there or commuting back and forth? I am going to go on the Monday for the 200er so I can give you a lift if you want?

[Splash]

No problem Rob pop round any time. Def up for Luton sent the membership off yesterday. Think I will commute but may stop over one night if any of the BF lot are making the trip. Happy to share a lift.... if you dont mind waiting till the end of the night

[Highstack]

Cheers Jim. Good point about the membership (I don't think my Walsall one counts although they are the same group.

Oh, btw, of course I don't mind waiting for you to finish your cash game as I will still be in the main event

[Splash]

Nah you need to register with Luton... you can use the same card though.  Goto the Grov web site and print off a membership form then fax it to em from work.

[Junior Senior]

thanks Splash - some useful ideas there!

Red-dog -useful advice as ever!

[RED-DOG]

Good post splash, and thanks for the link, some intresting opinions there

I did notice that everyone seems to play cash, I almost never do

[Junior Senior]

With regards to cash.  I never played it until recently - i was just a tourney man but the problem is and you pointed his out yourself Red that your tourney paydays are few and far between and you lose more than you win (times that is..not money), whereas with cash you should be able to grind and make a steady profit which should in effect pay for your entries to multis and keep you ticking over from a bankroll poit of view?! - its just a case of finding the game and the site and sticking to a tight but aggressive game.
IMO

[Splash]

Cash is my bread and butter,  it's not as exciting as going into a final table of a big MTT but i think that and STTs are the best way to make a living.   I'm surprised that Red does so well out of just playing MTTs!   

The trouble with cash games is the massive fluctuations..... you can go on a bad run and tilt a bit and before you know it youve done half your bank roll in 3hrs.   I all comes down to picking the correct limits for your bank roll and staying in control, but everyone tilts now and again.     I've had days where i've had all my money in 6 or 7 times when in front and been outdrawn each time, it can get expensive if you are sitting with 500 or a k.  With STTs u always have a bit more control and you dont need as big a bank roll to manage the fluctuations.

Been to one or two festivals recently and was shocked at the poor standard of play in the cash games by some of the well known tournie players,  I guess they like to blow off some steam on the side action and gamble a little.   I also know a few very good tournament players whos cash game is shocking, it's a different totally different game and mind set.

[wormster]

 
 Some great posts & opinions. Hope this isn't changing the subject a little, but I was chatting to one of the PR guys from a poker/casino site the other day & I asked him if thought the poker bubble would burst or not. Apparently the company thinking is that it won't burst but grow, with poker/casino sites being alongside porn & dating, in popularity, as to how the public uses the internet. My guess is that people have always loved to gamble & that will always be the case. Any thoughts?