ABE, Anyone but England?

[thetank]

Sorry Mr Moves, I'm quoting you from another thread to help kick off a wee debate, in its own thread, on this age old topic. I'm sure he won't mind too much.

Like many Scots you're an ABE (Anyone But England) which is tragic.  I couldn't care less about Scottish football if truth be told, I suspect the same is true for most England fans, but if Scotland (or Wales or N.Ireland) were in the WC I would happily support them as a British team..

Would you happily support Germany as a European team?

If not, what's the difference. You are a member of the British Isles, you are also a member of Europe.

We choose to let our culture and freedom of expression, rather than geographical position, decide what team/teams we are going to root for. Personally I don't find this tragic, I find it fantastic.



I want one of the African, or smaller South/Central American nations to win the World Cup. These are the poorest nations and most in need of the economic ressurgence that a world cup win would bring.

If England won, I would be more likely to directly benefit from the aforementioned economic boom. A Scot rooting for england therefore, rather than indulging in an act of altruism, is just being selfish.

[ifm]

I am British not European, actually i'm English first.
So, GOOD LORD NO!!!!!!!!!!!!

[The Baron]

I think England winning the world cup would NOT being an economic benefit for the home nations. All it would do is increase TV monies, wages, transfer fees etc then we would just see more foreign players here.

It's a huge financial benefit for a nation to host a world cup but not necessarily to win one.

[TightEnd]

I'm British, I support any of the British teams in one of these major competitions. I remember watching Scotland in 78 and 82 and cheerring them on as a teenager. Archie Gemmill's goal brought goosbumps to me then and I remember it fondly now for example.

However whilst I am too a European I do not feel an affinity with any of the other European teams. I reckon this is because the EC is a relatively recent political institution...we only joined in 74 for example...I do not have my family or my peers instilling Europeanism in me from a young age to the extent that I was taught to sing the national anthem or learnt about royalty etc etc in the 1970s

So no, I won't root for Germany...I don't have anything against them or France for that matter just I don't have that inherent feeling of being "European" like I do being "British". I'd rather shout for Ivory Coast or Ghana. The underdog if you will.

The "ABE" debate is one that will go round and round in circles on fora such as these. Most English do not get the "We hate the English" shouts that eminate from Scottish and Welsh sporting fans. Thus they ridicule it and put it down to chips on shoulders and inferiortiy complexes. In fact such notions are borne of hundreds of years of thoughts being ingrained in Scots/Welsh because of oppression in the 1700s/1800s

This is nothing different from it being felt in areas like Australia too hating the English...its an anti Imperial/anti colonial argument in essence that is perpetuated to this day as it passes down the generations

I do think my children and their children will feel progressively more European as the culture of being "European" spreads wider in schools and throughout society.

[thetank]

It's a huge financial benefit for a nation to host a world cup but not necessarily to win one.

It certainly was for West Germany in 1954.

It kickstarted a wee move from wartorn nobodys to being one of Europe's economic leaders.

It can boost a country's moral and help it on the road to great things.

How about Argentina in 1986? Or day I say England in the mid sixtys? These guys hosted it aswell of course, so I'll go with the 1954 example.

[Woodsey]

I used to support the scots until about 15 years ago at various sports as long as England weren't involved. That all changed after living up there for about 2 years or so and experiencing the real anti English mentality by a significant amount of the population (its not a minority by any stretch of the imagination), in my view it almost bordered on racism.

I don't get annoyed when I hear this nonsense anymore I just take great delight when they fail at particularly rugby and football. Its particularly good when after winning a game or two and they have yet another false dawn, only to have their dreams squashed yet again.

The tables have turned for me!

[bolt pp]

I'm English

[thetank]

I do think my children and their children will feel progressively more European as the culture of being "European" spreads wider in schools and throughout society.

This would be a good thing. When that day comes, my argument may be quashed, but I'll be a happy man.

[Nem]

I'm English

Congratulations

[thetank]

I am British not European, actually i'm English first.
So, GOOD LORD NO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Exactly my point, thankyou.

Don't expect the Scottish to feel British anymore than you feel European.

At the end of the day, we are all free to do feel how we like.

Why don't you like Germany, is it a cultural thing or a racist thing. I'm wagering it's more to do with culture, and that's pretty much why the majority of Scotland are ABE fans.

[jammer]

The difference is tankster...

We're all the same on these islands. Walk down glasgow, birmingham or dublin and you'll see the same shops, the same sorta pubs, the same culture.

I can associate with my scottish, irish and welsh mates. I can't with the french for example anything like the same.

Whatever you say all of us on these islands are more related by blood and culture than anyone in europe. I'll support england first cos its where i was born, but will stick by the scots, irish and welsh straight after. Screw Europe (oh, and london but thats a different story ).

[bolt pp]

I'm English

Congratulations

I have a tattoo to confirm my geographical origin of birth

[The Baron]

It's a huge financial benefit for a nation to host a world cup but not necessarily to win one.

It certainly was for West Germany in 1954.

It kickstarted a wee move from wartorn nobodys to being one of Europe's economic leaders.

It can boost a country's moral and help it on the road to great things.

How about Argentina in 1986? Or day I say England in the mid sixtys? These guys hosted it aswell of course, so I'll go with the 1954 example.

Good examples.

The West Germany "kick start" is just that though. A kick start. The economic boom that happened after was always going to happen if you look at the countries' potential at the time. Same can be said after Germany's 1990 victory as well (where it also was NOT hosted at home) as they had just been reunited as one Germany.

Argentina in '86 is a better example as they were a country in a bit of a pickle. (It was hosted in Mexico btw.) Yes it brought the country together and raised their moral etc but the financial implications were insignificant in comparison. It was still a mess for a long while after economically speaking.

[ifm]

I think this thread is both unnecessary and meaningless and i'm surprised that Tank of all people has started it.
We all know the English will never support Germany and we all know the Scottish will if they are playing England, it's daft and will just give another platform for anti-English views from our northern "friends?"
This thread was destined for disaster from the start and i think it should be deleted/locked now before it's too late.

[TightEnd]

tank,

do you think the majority of Scotland is ABE? Or is it concentrated to the sporting arena?


I only ask because the SNP remains a minority political party and the majority of Scots continue to vote Labour(esp in the cities) and sometimes Lib Dem in the highlands and islands. If the ABE sentiments were that widely reflected in  society, wouldn't the SNP be better represented in both the Scottish and English Parliaments?

Surely the better off rural borders areas aren't ABE?


I'm not trying to be controversial, just tthinking out loud

I'm wondering if this is a sporting rather than an overwhelmingly cultural phenomenon.