ABE, Anyone but England?

[The Baron]

"In fact such notions are borne of hundreds of years of thoughts being ingrained in Scots/Welsh because of oppression in the 1700s/1800s"

If this is the case then that is really unfortunate.

[Nem]

I think this thread is both unnecessary and meaningless and i'm surprised that Tank of all people has started it.
We all know the English will never support Germany and we all know the Scottish will if they are playing England, it's daft and will just give another platform for anti-English views from our northern "friends?"
This thread was destined for disaster from the start and i think it should be deleted/locked now before it's too late.

 

[bolt pp]

I think this thread is both unnecessary and meaningless and i'm surprised that Tank of all people has started it.
We all know the English will never support Germany and we all know the Scottish will if they are playing England, it's daft and will just give another platform for anti-English views from our northern "friends?"
This thread was destined for disaster from the start and i think it should be deleted/locked now before it's too late.

I was just a bout to weigh in with a series of profoundly insightfull opinions pertainng to the domestic geographical sociology sorounding this most contentious of debatable issues.

I think i'll just slip off to the two word story for a while then!!

[TightEnd]

I think this thread is both unnecessary and meaningless and i'm surprised that Tank of all people has started it.
We all know the English will never support Germany and we all know the Scottish will if they are playing England, it's daft and will just give another platform for anti-English views from our northern "friends?"
This thread was destined for disaster from the start and i think it should be deleted/locked now before it's too late.

 

I don't think the thread is destined for disaster and nor should it be locked. Maybe I am naive. I hope not.


If though anyone oversteps the mark...be they English, Scottish, German, Chinese or even Welsh, then of course we'll think again and will remove if need be.


Go on everyone, the tank has started this debate in sensible and intelligent fashion lets prove to ourselves most of all that we can have a good debate without things descending into flame wars or worse.

Thanks

[Nem]

I think this thread is both unnecessary and meaningless and i'm surprised that Tank of all people has started it.
We all know the English will never support Germany and we all know the Scottish will if they are playing England, it's daft and will just give another platform for anti-English views from our northern "friends?"
This thread was destined for disaster from the start and i think it should be deleted/locked now before it's too late.

I was just a bout to weigh in with a series of profoundly insightfull opinions pertainng to the domestic geographical sociology sorounding this most contentious of debatable issues.

I think i'll just slip off to the two word story for a while then!!

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!

[thetank]

We're all the same on these islands. Walk down glasgow, birmingham or dublin and you'll see the same shops, the same sorta pubs, the same culture.

Thats a fair point, but if you go outside the cities, you will see a big difference between Montrose, Tipperary and Bury St. Edmonds.

Besides, Supporting anyone with a Marks and Spencer makes as much sense to me as not supporting anyone who doesn't have a Marks and Spencer.

Leaving aside the blood argument, and this islands history of invaders from all over Europe, I believe differences, not similarities should be celebrated with the most fervour.

That's one of the reasons I'll be rooting for Sweden. Hey, they've got an IKEA.

[thetank]

Lets prove to ourselves most of all that we can have a good debate without things descending into flame wars or worse.

Thanks

That was the kind of intent. We can discuss national identity without famining, or at least try.

Will be back after the footie finishes to answer your previous post.

[jammer]

We're all the same on these islands. Walk down glasgow, birmingham or dublin and you'll see the same shops, the same sorta pubs, the same culture.

Thats a fair point, but if you go outside the cities, you will see a big difference between Montrose, Tipperary and Bury St. Edmonds.

Besides, Supporting anyone with a Marks and Spencer makes as much sense to me as not supporting anyone who doesn't have a Marks and Spencer.

Leaving aside the blood argument, and this islands history of invaders from all over Europe, I believe differences, not similarities should be celebrated with the most fervour.

That's one of the reasons I'll be rooting for Sweden. Hey, they've got an IKEA.

Well, most people live in big cities, but even so I disagree tanky - England, Scotland and Ireland have really similar cultures, we listen to the same music, we watch the same tv, and we've all been interbreeding like jack rabbits for centuries.

To be honest, I also find when my team goes out, I want whoever my mates are following to win. (I may take the piss out of them, but secretly I'm chuffed when they're happy and they're teams doin well.)

What about in poker then - if there are no scottish representatives in the world series say, I'll bet you still want the other brits to do well? I reckon this is a football rivalry thing

[thetank]

What about in poker then - if there are no scottish representatives in the world series say, I'll bet you still want the other brits to do well? I reckon this is a football rivalry thing

No need to go as far as poker, I freely admit it is just a football thing.

Football is in fact the only sport in which I don't root for England (in the abscence of Scotland.)

I was happy when you won the Rugby World Cup, and delighted to see you re-claim the ashes.

Part of my culture is to "hate" the English. I make a personal choice for this to manifest itself in football (and nowhere else.) It is my sincere belief that national identity and patriotism should begin and pretty much end with sport.




Oscar Wilde said that patriotism is a virtue of the vicious, that's true. It's also very natural though, and needs an outlet.

I like England, my mother is English and that's where all the best Butlin's are. I jumped for joy when London won the 2012 Olympic bid and my personal politics at no point include the acronym SNP.

Still, I'd rather you didn't win the World Cup. I don't think this makes me a jealous "colonial" or a racist. I would view anyone who brands me as such as talking with a certain amount of ignorance and leave it at that.

[Robert HM]

I blame it all on the hot weather.

[thetank]

3-0, practically over, so I'll answer you now.

I'm not trying to be controversial, just tthinking out loud

I'm wondering if this is a sporting rather than an overwhelmingly cultural phenomenon.

I have to admit that a large amount of my countrymen take things to the other level. Sometimes rough speaking Glaswegians can be misunderstood, and can be percieved as being racist when they are genuinely trying to be friendly. Despite that, there is bigotry aplenty up here.

In school, I certainly remember seeing the odd English pupil singled out and bullied because of their nationality.

I see the problem getting better though. I wouldn't put the bigots in the majority. For most of us, it begins and ends with sport.

I'm proud of the way the tartan army and Scottish club sides travel. We don't clash with police and wreck the town if we lose.

[The Baron]

"I'm proud of the way the tartan army and Scottish club sides travel. We don't clash with police and wreck the town if we lose."

I must admit I am ashamed to watch Englishmen causing trouble abroad during footy tournies but I'm not sure what this sentence is meant to achieve in relation to the argument?

Is the small minority of English hooligans a reason to hate the rest of England forever?

"Damn those Turkish hooligans - I hope Turkey lose every game ever from now on because of this!"

[thetank]

I was bringing it up in the context of Tightend's question as to whether hatred and bigotry was inherent in the Scottish culture.

I'm not using it as an argument as to why I dislike England's national football side. Perhaps irresponsible of me to mention it in this thread, so I apologise. It wasn't meant in the spirit of a "dig" but I can see how it could be taken as such.

Thus far in 2006, and in 2002, the English fans can be proud of how they've handled themsleves.


...and in this thread, we've managed 2 pages of debate without degenerating into flaming. There is hope for the world.

[The Baron]

I was bringing it up in the context of Tightend's question as to whether hatred and bigotry was inherent in the Scottish culture.

I'm not using it as an argument as to why I dislike England's national football side. Perhaps irresponsible of me to mention it in this thread, so I apologise. It wasn't meant in the spirit of a "dig" but I can see how it could be taken as such.

Thus far in 2006, and in 2002, the English fans can be proud of how they've handled themsleves.

Ahh ok - I see. My bad.

Yes I agree, I've never heard of Scottish fans causing trouble abroad.

[Nem]

Yes I agree, I've never heard of Scottish fans causing trouble abroad.

England in the 70's