ABE, Anyone but England?

[thetank]

I went to www.rooneyrooneyrooney.com

My browser said the site could not be found, so I assume he must still be injured.

[I, Zimbra]

This is a very interesting thread; shame it's all the way up here in one of the child boards I never look at.

I always took the ABE-in-football idea to be am extension of the same phenomenon that prevents me, as a childhood Everton supporter, from rooting for Liverpool to win the Champions League, even if they happen to be the sole English representative in Europe. Or for that matter, that prevents me - as someone who lives in a very pro-Spurs part of the world - from rooting for Arsenal when they play in Europe.

In other words, as Tank says, it's a sports-thing. It doesn't mean I hate Arsenal supporters. Even my mother claims to be an Arsenal supporter, although I'm convinced that's just because Colin Firth was in 'Fever Pitch'. Or possibly she just likes watching Thierry Henry. 

Bringing in concepts like the English suppression of Scotland might just therefore be a bit misleading - is it not just a case of near neighbours and therefore near rivals?

As I see it, as one broadens the phenomenon to include the National/International Game, there is always the danger of clouding the issue by bringing in xenophobia, and certainly there are aspects of the media who are very good at that. But really, it's just a sports thing.

My parents are from the US, so I do support the States as well when they play in these things (unless they're playing England); I have an aunt who lives in Italy, so I also hope that Italy do well (unless that conflicts with other affiliations), and for that matter I can think of several other teams with increasingly tenuous connections to my life, that in a pinch I could root for... just because the standard position of human beings happens not to be perched on a fence.

We like picking sides. Under certain circumstances it's very tempting to take that tendency too far.... "if you're not with us then you're against us", and so on.

Back to the original issue: Scotland and ABE. I don't mind if people from Scotland enjoy watching England lose. Just don't expect me to return the favour, I really hope that Scotland qualify for the next major tournament, and while we're at it, I hope Wales qualify as well...

[Ironside]

i have to admit 1994 the media was just as biased to the Republic of Ireland as they are normally to England but come on what has the Rep of Ireland got to do with Britian and the BBC correct me if i am wrong but people in Eire dont pay a liecence fee so the BBC should treat them the same as they treat france.

In this world cup i will follow team that i feel a conection too, south american teams cause they play good football, asain/afrian/central american teams cause its about time a team from outside the major power houses win the cup
germany as i spent the best year in my life on the piss while there in the BRITISH army france as my celtic brothers
Italy due to our mutaul love of the ladies, spain/portugal due to the fact i am going to imagrate to the sun
former eastern european teams as a win in the world cup would be such a finaicail boost for the countries involved
sweden cause i respect larsson for not being a greedy money grabber and he deserves the medal
switzland for have the balls to remain netreul while all around them are going mad

so that leaves england and holland and if they play each other i will go for a mile walk (without my wheelchair) it should take the 2hrs+ needed to miss it

[thetank]

In this world cup i will follow team that i feel a conection too, south american teams cause they play good football, asain/afrian/central american teams cause its about time a team from outside the major power houses win the cup
germany as i spent the best year in my life on the piss while there in the BRITISH army france as my celtic brothers
Italy due to our mutaul love of the ladies, spain/portugal due to the fact i am going to imagrate to the sun
former eastern european teams as a win in the world cup would be such a finaicail boost for the countries involved
sweden cause i respect larsson for not being a greedy money grabber and he deserves the medal
switzland for have the balls to remain netreul while all around them are going mad

so that leaves england and holland and if they play each other i will go for a mile walk (without my wheelchair) it should take the 2hrs+ needed to miss it

Really have no idea if that was written toungue in cheek, or deadly serious.

  either way 

[thediceman]

I enjoy the irony of those who insist the ABE thingy must contain prejudice.

You would expect a person who holds this negative trait (prejudice) to be of one opinion on matters, and not be open to any others.

Who insisted MUST, I know I haven't. Maybe it's easier to respond by changing the context of somebody's actual comment to try discredit it.

It's interesting how many Scottish people always adopt a team that is in direct competition to England. Shear concidence obviously. 

Personally I couldn't give a stuff who is anti England or not, I just think it's a tad sad that some people are reduced to being so negative of other countries chances because they are unable to support their own mediocre team. 

[thetank]

I was watching a little (just a little, honest guv) of the Big Brother punditry and heard some random musings which I believe may pertain to these issues.

One of the girlies in there, Grace, hasn't done that much wrong, but is on the recieving end of a huge wave of public disdain. One of the pyscho-analytical dykes on channel 4 said they think it's because we, as a nation, love to root for the Underdog. Grace had put herself in a Queen-Bee role, and the public resent this en-masse. She assumed the role, rather than having it bestowed on her, and now the Great British public are holding her to account.

A parallell could be drawn between Grace in the big brother house, and the England team. Yes, it is the media that have popped the team on a prematurely erected plynth, and not the fault of Sven and his men. When it comes to public opinion though, that doesn't matter much.
Both entities assume a greatness that has not yet been earned.

The current odds on Betfair for Grace to be evicted on Friday would suggest that the attitude partially responsible for a lot of the ABE thinking is indicative of the entire country, not just Scotland and Wales.

Just some thoughts.
 

[thetank]

Who insisted MUST, I know I haven't.
 

I know, I tried to search your posts in this thread for an example I could use. Unfortunately you use too many of those pesky words like 'maybe' 'could' and 'possibly'. 

 Maybe it's easier to respond by changing the context of somebody's actual comment to try discredit it.

Of course it is, but I'm happy to attempt to discredit aswell. That's what I've been mostly doing during this thread.

Tell me what your central argument is, and I'll have a bosch at it. 

[thediceman]

i have to admit 1994 the media was just as biased to the Republic of Ireland as they are normally to England but come on what has the Rep of Ireland got to do with Britian and the BBC correct me if i am wrong but people in Eire dont pay a liecence fee so the BBC should treat them the same as they treat france.

My point was nothing to do with what the expectation of coverage is due to who pays for a tv licence fee it was a case of pointing out that the Britsih media will support whoever they feel they have the strongest link with in any given competition. Naturally this is any of the home nations but in their absence they covered Eire. Following on from that observation I pointed out that we didn't have any cries of Eire bias by the media, it was just taken as natual as they were the only close team competing.

So should the media be taking about Wales, Scotland's and Northern Ireland during this competition that they have failed to qualify for. If you want less England coverage then it might help if you qualified in the future.

[thediceman]

Who insisted MUST, I know I haven't.
 

I know, I tried to search your posts in this thread for an example I could use. Unfortunately you use too many of those pesky words like 'maybe' 'could' and 'possibly'. 

Maybe it's easier to respond by changing the context of somebody's actual comment to try discredit it.

Of course it is, but I'm happy to attempt to discredit aswell. That's what I've been mostly doing during this thread.

Tell me what your central argument is, and I'll have a bosch at it. 

Ever thought I might be using those pesky words to play devils advocate and challenge some of the attitudes as displayed on this thread or are you suggesting that I am hiding behind my use of certain "could" and "possibly" words.

I prefer debates that actually consider what somebody states rather than what someone trys to manufacture has been said.   

[thetank]

I hope so, the devil needs as many advocates as he can get. 

Not suggesting you were hiding behind the words, it was more of a compliment. ( I like to throw a few of them in every now and then in a debate. It can confuse.  )

Language such as that suggests a groovy attitude, wherby the points you're making arn't necessary your iron-clad beliefs, merely thoughts you're projecting in the pursuit of intellectual discourse.

Keep on trucking. 

[The Baron]

Anyone think that the British pundits kiss Brazil's ass a bit too much?

They always spoken of highly due to past teams but never judged on their recent performances. If they've played crap it's "we don't know what gear they're playing in" instead of "they played crap".

Every Italian I know over here thinks they are the most overhyped nation in football.

Maybe it really is just our media that is great at overdoing it?

I mean between 1995 and 1998 Man U were "the best team in Europe" without ever actually winning the Champions League. Same from 2000-2004.

We do it with British sprinters, British boxers, British drivers AND the Brazilian footy team!

[TightEnd]

Jenson Button is a classic


Never acheived anything, yet he's young, pretty and British. Put on a pedestal by the sporting press and then when he achieves nothing knock him down. Give it 12 months from now.

[The Baron]

Mark Lewis-Francis.

Amir Kahn.

[TightEnd]

Audley Harrison

[thetank]

Tim Henman

Andrew Murray