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Rooky9
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« on: July 02, 2006, 02:05:30 AM » |
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I'm interested in a fans point of view on this... which do you rate as more important? obviously the timing is poor but given the choice, would you prefer your club to win the premiership, fa cup or champions league, or your country to win the world cup?
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Nem
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« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2006, 02:08:04 AM » |
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I would prefer my team to win the Premiership as we havent for over 45 years  |
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Rooky9
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« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2006, 02:10:33 AM » |
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As a born and bred newcastle fan i have more dissapointment with them than tonights result, and similar for my mate who is a boro fan....both of which being as a result of a preference for the years of energy specificallty put into them...
Spurs 45 years, England 44 at best!!!!
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thediceman
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« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2006, 02:21:31 AM » |
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Personally I can't see Peterborough United winning the premiership so it's England for me.
The reality is that England will always be at a disadvantage when it comes to competing in the Euro and World Cup finals due to club vs country battle. In the 12 months prior to this World Cup England only managed 9 games and when you consider many of those invovled a starting 11 only playing together for the first half before mass substitutions means we have very little preparation time. Sven may have been critised for these mass substitutions but the reality is that most of the top league managers would find some lame arsed excuse to pull their players out if they thought they would be playing 90 minutes in a friendly international. The premiership is big money and as a result these clubs are only interested in themselves and not the bigger picture.
Compared to how other countries prepare we simply hope to chuck some talented players together and hope for the best. Whilst we had the fewest games (9 in the 12 months) a team like Mexico had 33. You also see teams like South Korea get together months in advance to focus on preparing for the World Cup.
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Rooky9
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« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2006, 02:38:29 AM » |
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Personally I can't see Peterborough United winning the premiership so it's England for me.
The reality is that England will always be at a disadvantage when it comes to competing in the Euro and World Cup finals due to club vs country battle. In the 12 months prior to this World Cup England only managed 9 games and when you consider many of those invovled a starting 11 only playing together for the first half before mass substitutions means we have very little preparation time. Sven may have been critised for these mass substitutions but the reality is that most of the top league managers would find some lame arsed excuse to pull their players out if they thought they would be playing 90 minutes in a friendly international. The premiership is big money and as a result these clubs are only interested in themselves and not the bigger picture.
Compared to how other countries prepare we simply hope to chuck some talented players together and hope for the best. Whilst we had the fewest games (9 in the 12 months) a team like Mexico had 33. You also see teams like South Korea get together months in advance to focus on preparing for the World Cup.
Are you on the Sven payrol?!!!! TBH I dont thin mexicos 33 was a good example... but england had the games and the time to prepare... the only two problems were the poor subsitutuions and the lack of performance by our 'world class' players... end of. |
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thediceman
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« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2006, 03:21:32 AM » |
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No I'm not on Sven's payroll and I am and have been very critical of much of his managial decisions such as his negative tactics especially in games when we took lead.
Indeed our talanted players under performed and Sven's defensive substitution policy was a joke, as was his reluctunce to substitute David Beckham nomatter how bad a game he was having. The example of Mexico highlight that other countries are give greater support to their national team by their domestic clubs and fa's in the preparation for a major tournament in comparision to England. So you think 9 games is plenty of time to gel a team together. Is it not obvious that the more time a team has together the greater understanding their would have. It doesn't matter how good players are, the longer they play together the better they become. Thats why so many clubs managers so frequently state when incorportating new players into a team that it takes time for them to settle in.
Mexico, for it's lesser talent looked like a fluid passing team who understood the system they choose to play. England however did not. Part of that is in part to under performing but I don't recall England having played fliud football for sometime. The problem for England is much bigger than the two problems you blame it on.
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Rooky9
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« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2006, 08:31:38 AM » |
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I was a little 'tired and emotional' as we call it when i made my post.... yes you make a good point, but i can never see England being able to go down that route because of where the money is in football. If we had football on the same priority as rugby union or cricket (where club players miss games to go and play for their country) we would undoubtly be a more fluid team.
I do think that having the PL fixtures changed and the knowledge they all have of each others game was enough to be able to produce... 9 pre games, plus 5 finals games = 14 and there was still no decent coordination... surely 14 is enough (especially considering how long the squad has been together pre the last 12 months) so I think its more to do with underachieving on a indivdual basis
No idea where my sven comment came from TBH!
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dan
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« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2006, 12:19:23 PM » |
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ACE2M
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« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2006, 12:20:54 PM » |
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world cup
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dan
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« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2006, 12:22:01 PM » |
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club is far more important to me than country.
i go and watch my club eveery week i dont go and watch england. i choose the team i support, i dont choose my country although i still love england it just doesnt compare to arsenal
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GlasgowBandit
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« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2006, 12:26:00 PM » |
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club always
Glasgow Celtic...in my heart....always and forever!
Celtic isnt a team, its a way of life!
Or as the song goes Celtic first, Celtic last, Celtic overall. Mon the hoops! |
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thediceman
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« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2006, 01:11:27 PM » |
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I was a little 'tired and emotional' as we call it when i made my post.... yes you make a good point, but i can never see England being able to go down that route because of where the money is in football. If we had football on the same priority as rugby union or cricket (where club players miss games to go and play for their country) we would undoubtly be a more fluid team.
I do think that having the PL fixtures changed and the knowledge they all have of each others game was enough to be able to produce... 9 pre games, plus 5 finals games = 14 and there was still no decent coordination... surely 14 is enough (especially considering how long the squad has been together pre the last 12 months) so I think its more to do with underachieving on a indivdual basis
No idea where my sven comment came from TBH!
You would hope some of the worlds most talanted players would be able to form some sort of understanding over 9 games but sadly there didn't. I say 9 rather than your 14 because I don't think during a tournament is the time you should be hoping to gel together and also I don't really think it's a time that allows you a great opportunity to gel considering you are at the whim of injuries, suspenions and differing styles of opposition. The manager got it wrong on so many levels. The players under performed but this has happened at each and every tournament. When will we learn. The contributing factors for England not succeeding in big tournament are numerous from poor selection by the fa in it's choice of manager, to the managers character, tried players, not enough time together, etc, etc. I personally think we had a stronger FA which does not pander to the demands of the top premiership coaches who clearly impose sanctions on the use of their players as a condition for releasing them to play in friendies. Maybe it should be the players that tell their clubs before signing a contract that the demand the are always available for international duty. It was quite refreshing to see Wayne Rooney stick two fingers up at Alex Ferguson and tell him he would play in the world cup. Maybe it s the players that put their clubs before country or importantly money over national pride. The premiership is big business and as such these clubs try to protect their assets which costs our international aspirations. The scarey thing is that the premiership clubs are continiously trying to increase it's power. The fact that the premiership has become a faceless coroprate gaint and this is one of the key reasons I have developed a limited interest in the domestic game and now many follow the international game. |
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Sheriff Fatman
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« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2006, 01:30:21 PM » |
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Club always. Its there all the time, International tournaments are every two years.
This season has been fantastic for me - Barnsley got promoted. Give me that over international success every time.
Sheriff
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"...And If You Flash Him A Smile He'll Take Your Teeth As Deposit..."
"Sheriff Fatman" - Carter the Unstoppable Sex Machine
2006 Blonde Caption Comp Ultimate Champion (to be replaced by actual poker achievements when I have any)
GUKPT Online Main Event Winner 2008 (yay, a poker achievement!)
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The Baron
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« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2006, 03:00:47 AM » |
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Liverpool over England. No question.
Would I trade our FA Cup final shootout win for a QF penalties win Vs Portugal? No.
Would I trade it for a world cup win? Hmmm.... maybe. I don't know, Liverpool will win the FA Cup again in my lifetime I would imagine so this I would do.
How about a Champions League win for a world cup win? No chance in hell.
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