My Vegas Hand

[snoopy1239]

8-handed $1/$2 NLH Table.

Fairly tight table, couple of loose players, including young American in Seat 1. Young American seems pretty useful and not afriad to play weaker hands. We'd tried to outplay each other on a number of ocassions, including a brief, but fun heads up session. In fact, first hand I sat down I checked a set on the river and he bet $40 into me with 9 high, so I know he can bluff.

I have $550 in front of me.
Mateyboy (Seat 1 - young American) has about $650

About an hour into the session, I receive . Seat 1 (read above), raises to $8 (all raises in Vegas seem to be huge, this was minute in comparison), I call from small blind. Everyone else folds. We hadn't been folding to each other's raises all night, unless they were big or involved other players.

Flop =

I check

MB bets $25

I reraise to $65

He calls

Turn =

I check

He bets $120

I reraise to $320

He dwells for ages before moving all-in

I call for my last $140 or so

He shows

River  =

$1,100 pot sails away

Forgetting the preflop call, did I play it badly?

Thoughts please

[TightEnd]

LOL!

Play the Player don't get "I'm the big guy" syndrome

I'd play it much more passively against a guy like this....yes it might be obvious that you are drawing but you know you are not going to get him off with those re-raises so why make them? Yes you build a pot but I'd want to be in trap mode against someone you know will make the action for you.

If and when you hit I am sure his ego will ensure he is paying you off just in case you are "at it"

[Dale]

I have a lot of experience at these 1/2 and 2/5 NHLE games in vegas and most players here are very easy to read.

I think the first mistake is trying to play him heads up when youre out of possition but... meh.... no biggie.

So... you already have a good read on the guy.... perfect....  so use the information.
Theres no point getting fancy and trying to outplay him with a semi bluff, you can't use that weapon effectively against a poor LAG, so throw it out of your arsenal.
A poor LAG that's put money in the pot finds it hard to let go so i just assume there is no fold equity in raising him.

I assume the pot is $20 when the flop comes, so he's bet 1.25X the pot on the flop.
I don't see raising as an option here as I've said already, so call or fold.
Call if you think he'll pay off at least another $60 if you hit a diamond on the turn.

I check-fold to that bet on the flop to most players, and check-call to him so i can stack the twit when i make my hand.


Back to basics, playing these guys is easy.... let them make mistakes when you're on a drawing hand, value bet them to death when you have them beat.

[MrMoves]

Hi Snoops,

Are we going to have a cash game when I'm over next week?

Anyway.

I like the flop raise, but why check the turn?  That is great card for you, the check looks like you're drawing to the flush to me, I would be backing myself heavily again with a pot sized bet.

Believe in the force next time, Beagle.

[snoopy1239]

Hi Snoops,

Are we going to have a cash game when I'm over next week?

Anyway.

I like the flop raise, but why check the turn?  That is great card for you, the check looks like you're drawing to the flush to me, I would be backing myself heavily again with a pot sized bet.

Believe in the force next time, Beagle.

Sure, why not. Ceasar's Palace had a nice little cardroom.

The check on the turn was a little greedy I guess. I put him on a foldable hand like 6-6, 8-8, 9-9, etc and had a feeling he was itching to bet the turn. I could have sworn my reraise would force him to fold, but, to his credit, he made a good read and stuck it right back up at me. I was kinda worried that he'd just call my bet on the turn and I'd be forced to check fold the river, which I wasn't too keen on doing. I wanted to take it on the turn.

There's a misundertanding on this thread that he was a numpty, he wasn't.

I think my mistake wasn't necessarily in the play, but in my read of my opponent. He correctly put me on a draw and correctly thought his pair was ahead. Most players would fold like accordians to my second check raise, but he had the balls to stick it in.

[TightEnd]

There's no misunderstanding. He's a LAG. If I have a drawing hand against a LAG then I am playing it so that he makes the action and I am making my decisions based off pot odds in cash games

If I hit great, if I don't I haven't lost a huge pot by trying to check raise him twice when the likelihood is that a) he is talented enough to read you and b) he doesn't like folding anyway.

[Dale]

I agree, I can\'t see how a check-raise on that flop, to that player, when holding a flush draw can be a +ev move.
I think most of your money from this player (a typical 1/2 LAG) comes when he makes a mistake and lays you the wrong odds to make a near nut hand.

A more skillful way to play your hand is to check-call the flop and lead a big bet out on the turn (whether you pick up those extra 6 outs or not).
If he folds to that it\'s good and if he calls that its still alright... and you\'re certainly showing enough strength that he\'s unlikely to raise you without a v. big hand himself.
Experiment with doing this the next time you\'re in one of these games against a similar player. I think you\'ll find success with it.


You just seemed to be too worried about a) being bluffed by him and  b) making it obvious that you\'re on a draw.
I\'d suggest that at these 1/2NLHE games theres no need to be worried about either.

On the flop theres a $20 pot (10BBs), by the end of betting on the turn you\'re both all in for about 200 BBs each invested in the pot, both of you with weak hands. There\'s just no need for it and if you think you\'re a better player than him you can get your money in in a lot better shape than that. I sense (correct me if im wrong) that there was perhaps an ego thing with him, whos got the bigger balls type scenario...... let that affect his play and not yours.

Also, fundamentally, you need to look at your decision to call from the BB to his raise.
I wouldn\'t advocate playing ultra ultra tight against a LAG at 1/2, but just choosing the right spots to get involved in a pot with him. Playing against him when you have position and with a range of hands thats tighter than his range (e.g. your read is that he\'ll raise with any top 35% or worse, call behind or reraise with top 20% hands).

[snoopy1239]

What's a LAG?

[Bongo]

Loose Aggressive

[snoopy1239]

I agree, I can\'t see how a check-raise on that flop, to that player, when holding a flush draw can be a +ev move.
I think most of your money from this player (a typical 1/2 LAG) comes when he makes a mistake and lays you the wrong odds to make a near nut hand.

A more skillful way to play your hand is to check-call the flop and lead a big bet out on the turn (whether you pick up those extra 6 outs or not).
If he folds to that it\'s good and if he calls that its still alright... and you\'re certainly showing enough strength that he\'s unlikely to raise you without a v. big hand himself.
Experiment with doing this the next time you\'re in one of these games against a similar player. I think you\'ll find success with it.


You just seemed to be too worried about a) being bluffed by him and  b) making it obvious that you\'re on a draw.
I\'d suggest that at these 1/2NLHE games theres no need to be worried about either.

On the flop theres a $20 pot (10BBs), by the end of betting on the turn you\'re both all in for about 200 BBs each invested in the pot, both of you with weak hands. There\'s just no need for it and if you think you\'re a better player than him you can get your money in in a lot better shape than that. I sense (correct me if im wrong) that there was perhaps an ego thing with him, whos got the bigger balls type scenario...... let that affect his play and not yours.

Also, fundamentally, you need to look at your decision to call from the BB to his raise.
I wouldn\'t advocate playing ultra ultra tight against a LAG at 1/2, but just choosing the right spots to get involved in a pot with him. Playing against him when you have position and with a range of hands thats tighter than his range (e.g. your read is that he\'ll raise with any top 35% or worse, call behind or reraise with top 20% hands).

This is a great post.

I think I agree.

A check call then a bet on the turn probably would have been wiser.

Aslo, I'm probably option (b) here, worried about making my draw look obvious.

Thirdly, you're right about him having an ego thing. I later saw him call an all-in reraise with second pair (again) against a guy who had flush draw and overcards. Okay, he's in front, but he's probably the underdog to win the hand. He deifinitely had a 'I'm gonna show them by making an awesome call' attitude. Sometimes good players fold when ahead.

I think I misjudged this player. Considering I had a read on him and had a good idea of the stength of his hand, I really have no excuses for losing. I got greedy with my check on the turn as I really thought he'd fold. That's why I let him bet again,  Ithought I could get a few more chips out of him. oops.

[Dale]

Thanks.

I'm over again next week too... but i'd suggest there are easier cash games than at caesars.
Start thinking down a notch... a little more down market (tropicana, flamingo, excalibur, imperial palace).... let me know if you fancy hitting the !/2 in any of these joints.

gl

[snoopy1239]

Thanks.

I'm over again next week too... but i'd suggest there are easier cash games than at caesars.
Start thinking down a notch... a little more down market (tropicana, flamingo, excalibur, imperial palace).... let me know if you fancy hitting the !/2 in any of these joints.

gl

this cash game was at Sahara

The cash games at Ceasar's are cool, won 1k in a couple of hours a few days ago

[12barblues]

He's a LAG. If I have a drawing hand against a LAG then I am playing it so that he makes the action and I am making my decisions based off pot odds in cash games

This should be printed out and stuck on everyone's PC.  Particularly mine.