1st MTT win in months - but im unhappy!!

[Scottish Dave]

i have to get back to this post asap mate, im just leaving the house and dont have time to read it all, but it looks good...hang with me mate..


ohhh and one other thing, i dont have a bank roll, i dont use one, i just play poker direct out my bank account!

[matt674]

i have to get back to this post asap mate, im just leaving the house and dont have time to read it all, but it looks good...hang with me mate..


ohhh and one other thing, i dont have a bank roll, i dont use one, i just play poker direct out my bank account!

No problem - i'll ask another question while you are out then. Why do you not play without a bankroll?

By playing poker directly out of your bank account the short term fluctuations of playing MTT's are magnified even more as you can see your results affecting your life on a daily basis, especially if there are more debits coming out of your account than credits going in.

By keeping a poker bankroll seperate from your day to day finances whilst sticking to the principle of only playing with money you can afford to lose (preferably all on the same site) it means that if you go through a bad patch during the week then it wont make looking at your bank account even more depressing. Hopefully this will give you more reason to keep a positive outlook to take with you to the tournament arena.

[Claw75]

You could have been writing about me there Matt.  One thing I've got to learn to deal with is to stick to a level where I can take the losses.

My bankroll is zero.  I stick $30 or so in my account, and build it up playing $5-$10 SNGs (where I seem to be able to make a good profit).  Once I get to $100-$150, I decide to 'have a go' at a $20 rebuy MTT, get close to cashing, and then have another bash.  Before I know it, I'm back down to $30 - mess about on a few extended $5 STTs and deposit again. 

It suits me as I don't play for profit, I play for fun, and the way things are at the moment it's not costing me more than a few quid a month out of my wages which would otherwise be blown in one night out, plus I'm 'winning' enough to give me a shot at big money in the bigger buy in games (which I would withdraw and spend). 

I don't know if Dave is in a similar situation where bankroll isn't important, but perhaps so?

[Claw75]

Hmm I think I've answered my own statement there - I guess I don't need to 'stick to a level where I can take the losses' unless I actually want to build a bankroll!

[Ginger]

Great post Matt!

It hit home with me also, I am in the same situation as Dave (sort of) after having to clearout my online roll for a expensive move, it near enough crippled me poker wise. I have finally resigned myself to the fact that, for now, I can't play the games and levels I know well and love. This HAS taken the fun and enjoyment out of the game somewhat, and for too long a period of time I was doing the 'large win to get me back where I was' attitude. This last week, I have gone back to the lowly $10 MTT's, $20FO max, and although it's going to be a long slog, I will get it back eventually. If I want to play the large tourneys I HAVE to win a seat for them, and then play it as a FO (horrible, but at least I'm in it)

The strangest thing is I'm finally getting back into the money places again, these tourneys can be a minefield, and some of the players are truly shocking but at least I'm getting back up the top and if I do bust out, why hell, it's only a $10 

[matt674]

Hmm I think I've answered my own statement there - I guess I don't need to 'stick to a level where I can take the losses' unless I actually want to build a bankroll!

Yup - it all depends on what you want to take out of the game. Some people are happy to be recreational players, just playing the occasional game for fun or to meet up with friends for a social occasion. If this is the case then the application of patience, discipline and good bankroll management tend not to apply - provided you are having fun and enjoying it then you are acheiving your objective, any good results are a bonus!!

Once you start playing poker for profit (as i believe Dave is) then you need to learn to become more patient and disciplined otherwise chances are your bankroll will suffer in the long run.

[matt674]

It happened to me during feb and march 2005.

2004 went beyond all my wildest dreams, i went from playing $5 sng's and freerolls on pokerroom to playing all the biggest MTT's on pokerstars along with some of the big festivals including the EPT London festival at the Grosvenor in 2004. However i needed to take most of my bankroll out over xmas and new year 2005 and left myself hardly anything in my pokerstars account. Unfortunately i carried on playing all the bigger tournaments and within a couple of weeks i was virtually broke, i felt as though i was still playing good poker but the poker gods were conspiring against me and i was suffering horrendous outdraws one after the other.

Thankfully i had a good friend in poker to help me out as i hadn't heard of the blonde forum (didnt become a member til july 05) and after a while i realized that if i wanted to carry on playing i had to drop down to a level to suit my bankroll. No longer could i play $50 rebuys, $100 and $200 freezeouts - i had to go back to the $10 and $20 freezeouts with the occasional small rebuy. I took a few weeks out - reread a bit of the sklansky books i have and waited til i felt good about returning to the game. Gradually i built up my bankroll in the next few months until i could start playing the occasional $50 freezeout on top of my normal games and by May i was lucky enough to pick up a good result in a rebuy tournament. The next few weeks were unbelieveable, the monkey was off the monkeys back and after picking up one good result before i knew it 3 or 4 more followed culminating in winning a seat in the WSOP.

There have been times since then that i've needed to withdraw big chunks from my bankroll - and even now my bankroll on pokerstars stands at $0.00 to stop me playing online poker in the build up to the WSOP. The experience i took from last year have stood me in good stead and i know that when the time comes again after the WSOP that i should have no problems in rebuilding my bankroll. Yes sometimes its going to be a hard graft and it isnt going to be pretty or enjoyable at times but touch wood i should be back playing the level i believe i belong at. My plan of building up my bankroll to $60000 so i can take 12 months out of work to see if i can cut it in the world of professional poker is still my main objective in poker - it just might take a little longer than i first envisaged. (though the next two weeks in Vegas may change that!!  )

Poker is like life - you have to take your past experiences and use them to build towards a brighter future. Providing you can enjoy it the majority of the time then the trip will be worthwhile!!

[Scottish Dave]

just a quick answer to matt, again i havent really got the time to get into this thread, but the reason i dont have a bankroll is that i cant build one.

when ever i try to i just go bust, the norm for me is to deposit around £100 into betfair at the start of the week, and play £10 MTT's with the occasional shot at the £25 (10K Gtd) but that only gives me about 4/5 attempts to cash

I usually lose that within the week and deposit another £100 and do the same.

it must roughly be working out about £500 per month going out on poker.

dont try to suggest i play STT's cos i detest them, i find them so so boring, if you play a £10 STT the most you can win is £25! that has no apeal to me whatso ever - MTT's are where the money is

[Div]

Dave you have to  have patience to build a bankroll. Tried to tell you this manys a time!

Remember my comments after a few of you guys had your first decent lifts in CinCins?  I suggested you used it as a starting point to go on to bigger things.

MTTs are super streaky. If you want to build up from £100 you probably can't afford to play anything higher than fiver freezouts without risking going bust.

STT and LIMIT hold em are both good ways to build up a roll, especially when done wisely i.e. in conjunction with some bonus whoring.

Don't look at a single STT win as the be all and end all. As an example, last night I did a batch of 4 table $20 Stars SNG and made two firsts from 4 attempts, which equated to an earn rate of about $90 per/hour.

That's tax free, and a better hourly rate than I manage in my 'proper' job - and you know I've got a good job!

If you want to make it big without any long  term effort, you'd be as well forgetting about playing normal MTT and stick to satellites into big events, and see if you can 'do a Moneymaker'.

Unfortunately the odds on success are extremely low, and the likelihood is you are condemning yourself to years of frustration.

[matt674]

I'll never suggest trying to play them as i dont play them myself, nor do i play cash - i'm a MTT monkey

You'll be surprised how much pressure you put yourself under to cash in such a short space of time tournament wise. You'll put yourself under pressure without even realizing it. You will make folds in spots when you know you are probably infront when you know that the money finish is just around the corner, you will talk yourself out of making certain decisions that normally you would make 95% correctly the rest of the time.

Rather than keep depositing week in week out why not try taking some time out of the game but saving up the money instead then after 6-8 weeks you will have about £600-£800 saved up which you can deposit all in one go. Then you can play the £10 and £20 tournaments safe in the knowledge that you have got a good month of tournaments to have a shot at before your bankroll starts getting low again - you'll be surprised how a combination of both a break from the game and the lifting of pressure to constantly get results helps improve your outlook on the game and usually improves your ROI.

[Graham C]

STT's pay great and if you find a level you are good at, no matter how low that level is, you can make loads from it.  A £10 stt will pay the winner £50 which for an hours work isn't too shabby.  Sure it's not the best ROI in poker, but it's mighty fine for playing a game for an hour.  Then you can play two tables at a time - £80 profit now is possible.

I'm stuck playing $6.50 sng's on Stars - it's not big cash but I finish in the money most of the time and have built up a fairly nice bankroll for me.  When I've made another $100-200 I'm going to have a decent run at the next level up.  (I tried the win one move up approach but it didn't work for me!). 

I don't expect to be a millionaire over night but I play a lot of poker which I love doing, my account is going up slowly and every now and then I have a bash at a $20 mtt or an EPT qualifier to see how I get on.

[Scottish Dave]

STT's pay great and if you find a level you are good at, no matter how low that level is, you can make loads from it.  A £10 stt will pay the winner £50 which for an hours work isn't too shabby.  Sure it's not the best ROI in poker, but it's mighty fine for playing a game for an hour.  Then you can play two tables at a time - £80 profit now is possible.

I'm stuck playing $6.50 sng's on Stars - it's not big cash but I finish in the money most of the time and have built up a fairly nice bankroll for me.  When I've made another $100-200 I'm going to have a decent run at the next level up.  (I tried the win one move up approach but it didn't work for me!). 

I don't expect to be a millionaire over night but I play a lot of poker which I love doing, my account is going up slowly and every now and then I have a bash at a $20 mtt or an EPT qualifier to see how I get on.

yes but to play STT's it means you have to win 1 in 4 just to break even, 1 in 3 to turn a profit, and for the past year imve not been able too.

Matt as far as leaving poker i dont think i could, the first think i think ablout as soon as i get any spare time, is what MTT is about to start on betfair, i couldn't live with out it for more than 2 days

[Graham C]

Winning 1 in 3 is more achievable than getting the same cash in a mtt though.

Play 3 or 4 at once and it will keep you on your toes too

[Scottish Dave]

Winning 1 in 3 is more achievable than getting the same cash in a mtt though.

true and i aint winning in any of those situation!

Play 3 or 4 at once and it will keep you on your toes too

i do and lose tham all lol

[Scottish Dave]

dont believe it! this is what im on about!

i just played the £1,500 Gtd on crypto!

build up a good stack to 16,000 and get KK, i raise, guy on 9,000 puts me all in...i call.

he has 9 10 and hits a straight!

next hand i get AK, get it all in preflop against A7......board comes K 3 4 7 7!

went out in 25th spot with top 20 getting in the money!

OH MY GOD!