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Author Topic: online cheating  (Read 5518 times)
RED-DOG
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« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2005, 12:45:33 PM »

Sometimes you wonder, last night i made a big all in move against the chip leader to a raise when i was pretty sure he had nothing. He calls me with J8o giving him nothing against my top pair top kicker AQ. If i won it would cripple him. Turn 8 river 8.

Everyone at the table is amazed and asking how he can call. He says absolutely nothing.

Surely that means he CAN'T see your hole cards
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« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2005, 01:01:36 PM »

Or he can see my hole cards but he knows whats coming on the turn and river.

I just can't see how he can call with 15 players left and good chip lead. He has got this far so he can't be stupid.
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ifm
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« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2005, 01:36:30 PM »

but if the site uses a random number generator then the site itself doesn't know what cards are coming next
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« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2005, 01:38:18 PM »

Sometimes you wonder, last night i made a big all in move against the chip leader to a raise when i was pretty sure he had nothing. He calls me with J8o giving him nothing against my top pair top kicker AQ. If i won it would cripple him. Turn 8 river 8.

Everyone at the table is amazed and asking how he can call. He says absolutely nothing.

Depends what the board was. We know it was Qxx, what were the other 2 cards? Maybe he had a draw. Anyway I welcome players calling me when theyre a dog. Hurts when they hit but thats poker!
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« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2005, 01:51:02 PM »

I'm a dog
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« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2005, 04:00:12 PM »

but if the site uses a random number generator then the site itself doesn't know what cards are coming next

I  studied internet security witin my degree last year and I posed this exact question. The lecturer himself plays online poker. there is a consortium (can't remember the name) that regulates poker sites etc. There is deffinately one for the united kingdom and united states which makes sites such as will hill and paradise poker safe. Random number generators are just that random, so not even the site itself can determine what is coming next. It's exactly like  dealing in real life without the possiblity of seeing the bottom of the card etc. The only question this leaves me with is can a site override the deal and deal it's own cards out. Why would this aid the site? I wandered this too, perhaps to keep players that are losing regulary playing in order to keep taking money from them.. i.e give them a winning river. I  can't imagine sites such as will hill getting away from this. I will say there is no way a player sitting away from the will hill servers can access it and see what is coming next, could they access it and instead of seeing what is coming next give them self a card? I don't know.. will hill would see i.p numbers etc and know whom was doing it.. but the user would still be extremely good if he a)knew you could do it and b)did it.
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« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2005, 04:33:50 PM »

Stoo , what you are talking about is determining the cards. This is not what I am implying. The fact is there are programmes whereby you can SEE everyones cards, giving you a great advantage! I am not implying that the cards are not random, hole cards OR flop! But if you could sit at a table knowing what all the cards that everybody is holding then it would make that game a farce.
e.g. The poker bowl or poker heaven have a time delay as not to give anybody an advantage. That time delay is manually entered, this doesn't change the fact that it is possible to see all hole cards.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2005, 04:42:18 PM by dik9 » Logged

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« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2005, 04:39:18 PM »

sorry dik9, midst cricket/reading.

You would still need to be able to link to the poker sites  servers which in essense would require a hacker with enough skill to just take the money out without even playing. Any program capable of doing this would probably last ten minutes before the bods pick it up.
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« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2005, 04:43:47 PM »

Whats the score? the missus watching bloody eastenders!
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« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2005, 04:45:03 PM »

we require about 70 with 8 wickets.

going ok!
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« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2005, 06:29:14 PM »

http://www.pocketfives.com/5AC54A09-22BF-4066-B55E-83D1546FC140.aspx
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« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2005, 07:05:41 PM »

I'm sure most of you are aware of the programme that lets you see your opponents hole cards after showdown if your opponent mucks his hand.
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« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2005, 07:11:49 PM »

I'm sure most of you are aware of the programme that lets you see your opponents hole cards after showdown if your opponent mucks his hand.

how did i know you were going to come on with this?
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« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2005, 11:18:58 PM »

nice one Simon, i was having trouble getting thru Grin
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« Reply #29 on: August 29, 2005, 04:00:18 AM »

but if the site uses a random number generator then the site itself doesn't know what cards are coming next

I  studied internet security witin my degree last year and I posed this exact question. The lecturer himself plays online poker. there is a consortium (can't remember the name) that regulates poker sites etc. There is deffinately one for the united kingdom and united states which makes sites such as will hill and paradise poker safe. Random number generators are just that random, so not even the site itself can determine what is coming next....

well not totally - computers can't actually generate random numbers, they are just forumulated from complex mathematical operations which are "seeded" (i.e. the complex mathematical sequence's start point), from the elapsed time in seconds from 1st Jan 1970 (which hence should always be changing). If you know the seed, and plug it in to the formula - normally called something like rand() - you always get the same sequence of numbers. Hence in geek-monkey school they're called pseudo-random numbers, because they ain't really random at all, just reaaaally hard to reproduce if you don't know what started them off.

Its damn near impossible to obtain any of that information anyhow. On top of this what you see on the screen in front of you when you play is a thin-client, i.e. the program running on your computer, that talks to the company's poker server, has hardly any information being sent to it - only your cards, and the betting. Everything else should be inaccessible to the outside world, and only known by the server itself. This is how the software would be written, and only someone who actually coded the thing in the first place would have any chances of putting back doors in. Its in the company's interest to make the thing as solid as possible - they make enough off the rakes anyhow to risk possible bankruptcy from legal action by its members if it ever turned out something was awry.

Given all of this (and the fact that a lot of peeps might not have understood diddly squit of the last 2 paragraphs) I can't see how it is possible at all to cheat, without access to a company's internal admin software (which would have to be lousily written) and an admin internal account registered with it. I mean, as with anything, its always possible, but the chances are bloody remote.

More chance of someone working for a poker company would be on the fiddle.
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