Why is the APAT payout structure so top heavy ?

[dik9]

On a different subject, when will APAT have a voice with the commission, and how do you feel about the daily charge casino's can now ask of the poker players on top of registration fees?

i.e. Walk into casino free £10 to enter cardroom £10+£1 reg fee, in fact the charge is not capped so they can charge anything.

Only a matter of time before Grosvenor or Gala introduce a blanket charge

Your thoughts?

[tikay]

Well, there you have it - a whole range of views. Largely - largely - those who played have been wholly supportive, they saw or see no problem with the Payout Structure, or indeed, much else. Whereas the potential/actual problems with the Payout Structure seem to cause problems with those who did not play. But the former includes so many "recreational" players, while the latter is more inclined to seasoned & experienced players. I'm not entirely sure what to make of that!

But I hope everyone can see that these things are subjective - nobody can say for sure they are right, or wrong. It's wholly subjective.

We shall, increasingly, look for guidance from our Members. We believe  - & the feedback you have seen confirms this - they have been happy with what's happened so far, & so if we can continue to keep them happy, we have fulfilled our promise.

Now we have to move on, & I am sure the blondes & others continue to follow our progress closely.

[matt674]

Whereas the potential/actual problems with the Payout Structure seem to cause problems with those who did not play.

Those who maybe are worried that this payout structure is going to be the blueprint that the APAT want all the other casinos and cardrooms to follow.

I am sure the blondes & others continue to follow our progress closely.

That we will squire - who needs Eastenders and Corrie on the coconut box when we got our very own soap opera right here

[matt674]

Yes, this is a very good point Matt.

I certainly do not envisage casinos introducing this type of payout structure per se, just as I do not see them removing £10 rebuys with 12 minute levels from their everyday schedules.  

However, I would hope that to gain an APAT endorsement, at some point in the future, casinos would run regular deepstack tournaments with added value and a decent structure to give players a more regular and entertaining experience.  

We will look at the payout structure, as part of our overall post evaluation of the Birmingham event.  However, as I said in my earlier post it is important that any change is entirely right prior to us pushing the button.  

Cheers,

Des.

So the APAT will be run like the ISO in business terms? Casinos and cardrooms will put forward for an accreditation by the APAT and provided the casino meets the standards of the APAT then you will endorse them to allow them to hold added value tournaments?

[tikay]

Yes, this is a very good point Matt.

I certainly do not envisage casinos introducing this type of payout structure per se, just as I do not see them removing £10 rebuys with 12 minute levels from their everyday schedules.  

However, I would hope that to gain an APAT endorsement, at some point in the future, casinos would run regular deepstack tournaments with added value and a decent structure to give players a more regular and entertaining experience.  

We will look at the payout structure, as part of our overall post evaluation of the Birmingham event.  However, as I said in my earlier post it is important that any change is entirely right prior to us pushing the button.  

Cheers,

Des.

So the APAT will be run like the ISO in business terms? Casinos and cardrooms will put forward for an accreditation by the APAT and provided the casino meets the standards of the APAT then you will endorse them to allow them to hold added value tournaments?

I think we are getting a bit ahead of ourselves here! One step at a time. I think the whole phrasing of your Post sits uncomfortably with me - "allow them" etc. That's premature, speculative, & even if accurate, is not the way I prefer to conduct business. My preferred route is to engage in dialogue.

[Karabiner]

and I too never heard a grumble about the payout

In the old days when there were three prizes 60%/30%/and10% nobody used to grumble either.

Does that mean that it was right ?

It is a matter of education, and players with little experience are hardly likely to speak out are they ?

And as for there being no mention of a deal, well Tikay had stated on here that you would "do everything possible" to prevent a deal being done, so little wonder that nobody piped up.

[MAF]

Hello all!

I never thought my first post here would be getting in the middle of a hot debate.  But I'm not writing to flame anyone here.  I just want to express an opinion, and you can take it or leave it.

I was lucky enough to play in Birmingham this weekend and thoroughly enjoyed myself.  I thought the tournament as a whole was very well run and I'm sure there wasn't one person there who didn't enjoy themselves.  The structure with 10,000 starting chips and 40 minute levels made for some great poker, and I hope this structure remains for all future events.

As for the payout structure, I'm going to be a little picky, but nothing really different to what has been suggested by some other posters already.  I think it is very important to have a top-heavy payout, especially with the top 3 places, just as you see in many tournaments (especially online).  This makes people play for the win rather than just sit back content with a decent payout for a lower place.  However, I would say on this occasion the 1st place was a bit TOO top heavy.  I mean £4000 plus an EPT package for the winner, then £1800 for 2nd is a huge difference.  I think it's fair to say most people would gladly take the EPT place on it's own.  I also think it's unfair to have the same prize for 4th as for 9th.  I believe there was a gripe made that the guy who finished 4th got the same as someone who got knocked out 4 hours earlier.  A bit harsh, but nonetheless true.  So to summarise, I would prefer to see the structure amended as follows:

• A reduction in the cash prize for 1st place (say EPT package + £2000)
• A payout for 10th place (assuming 10 table FT)
• An increasing payout structure for 10th to 2nd

As mentioned, this is only intended as an opinion and not intended as a flame to anyone, so take with a pinch of salt if you wish.  It is also not intended as sour grapes as I finished nowhere near the money, so x% of zero is still zero 

Whatever the payout structure, it will still not stop me attending future APAT events.

[matt674]

I think we are getting a bit ahead of ourselves here! One step at a time. I think the whole phrasing of your Post sits uncomfortably with me - "allow them" etc. That's premature, speculative, & even if accurate, is not the way I prefer to conduct business. My preferred route is to engage in dialogue.

Apologies - maybe i didn't phrase my post correctly. I was referring to Des saying that the APAT would "endorse" casinos and was asking what was meant by that.

[dik9]

  and  MAF

Welcome to blonde

[DesD]

Yes, this is a very good point Matt.

I certainly do not envisage casinos introducing this type of payout structure per se, just as I do not see them removing £10 rebuys with 12 minute levels from their everyday schedules.  

However, I would hope that to gain an APAT endorsement, at some point in the future, casinos would run regular deepstack tournaments with added value and a decent structure to give players a more regular and entertaining experience.  

We will look at the payout structure, as part of our overall post evaluation of the Birmingham event.  However, as I said in my earlier post it is important that any change is entirely right prior to us pushing the button.  

Cheers,

Des.

So the APAT will be run like the ISO in business terms? Casinos and cardrooms will put forward for an accreditation by the APAT and provided the casino meets the standards of the APAT then you will endorse them to allow them to hold added value tournaments?

It would not be right to get too far ahead of ourselves here, and I will not be drawn further on this at this time, beyond saying it would seem to make sense to recognise venues that support APAT principles.  We anticipate bringing thousands of new players into the live game and their needs will need to be catered for regularly and conveniently.

Regards,

Des.

[matt674]

It would not be right to get too far ahead of ourselves here, and I will not be drawn further on this at this time, beyond saying it would seem to make sense to recognise venues that support APAT principles.  We anticipate bringing thousands of new players into the live game and their needs will need to be catered for regularly and conveniently.

Regards,

Des.

Ok, fair enough

A little patience to allow the APA to get to it's feet properly would be great too.

 

[dik9]

On a different subject, when will APAT have a voice with the commission, and how do you feel about the daily charge casino's can now ask of the poker players on top of registration fees?

i.e. Walk into casino free £10 to enter cardroom £10+£1 reg fee, in fact the charge is not capped so they can charge anything.

Only a matter of time before Grosvenor or Gala introduce a blanket charge

Your thoughts?

Sorry to push this one as I think it's quite important

[DesD]

On a different subject, when will APAT have a voice with the commission, and how do you feel about the daily charge casino's can now ask of the poker players on top of registration fees?

i.e. Walk into casino free £10 to enter cardroom £10+£1 reg fee, in fact the charge is not capped so they can charge anything.

Only a matter of time before Grosvenor or Gala introduce a blanket charge

Your thoughts?

Sorry to push this one as I think it's quite important

Hi Rich,

Not my department, but I cannot see APAT publishing a position on that until we have thoroughly researched the variables.   

Regards,

Des.

[boldie]

Hello all!

I never thought my first post here would be getting in the middle of a hot debate.  But I'm not writing to flame anyone here.  I just want to express an opinion, and you can take it or leave it.

I was lucky enough to play in Birmingham this weekend and thoroughly enjoyed myself.  I thought the tournament as a whole was very well run and I'm sure there wasn't one person there who didn't enjoy themselves.  The structure with 10,000 starting chips and 40 minute levels made for some great poker, and I hope this structure remains for all future events.

As for the payout structure, I'm going to be a little picky, but nothing really different to what has been suggested by some other posters already.  I think it is very important to have a top-heavy payout, especially with the top 3 places, just as you see in many tournaments (especially online).  This makes people play for the win rather than just sit back content with a decent payout for a lower place.  However, I would say on this occasion the 1st place was a bit TOO top heavy.  I mean £4000 plus an EPT package for the winner, then £1800 for 2nd is a huge difference.  I think it's fair to say most people would gladly take the EPT place on it's own.  I also think it's unfair to have the same prize for 4th as for 9th.  I believe there was a gripe made that the guy who finished 4th got the same as someone who got knocked out 4 hours earlier.  A bit harsh, but nonetheless true.  So to summarise, I would prefer to see the structure amended as follows:

• A reduction in the cash prize for 1st place (say EPT package + £2000)
• A payout for 10th place (assuming 10 table FT)
• An increasing payout structure for 10th to 2nd

As mentioned, this is only intended as an opinion and not intended as a flame to anyone, so take with a pinch of salt if you wish.  It is also not intended as sour grapes as I finished nowhere near the money, so x% of zero is still zero 

Whatever the payout structure, it will still not stop me attending future APAT events.

Good first post...and welcome to the forum MAF!

[dik9]

Just wondered how far APAT /APL is down the line?

You have tied up deals with Pokerstars and PokerPlayer Mag for APL
You have now got significant members
You have had your inaugrial comp
The site is all up and running
Spokespeople have been assigned

Have you got any contacts with the Gaming Commission?
If so who, and will they listen?

I cannot play any of these events, but do I need to join to find out what is happening in the poker world?