APAT - an Apology

[Ironside]

Hey don't pick on me, I was the one who "ratted" about the lack of disabled access in the first place.

publically

I love the Broadway and it is nice and close to me, but it only held 120 leaving a lot of disapointed punters.

Could we not use the 400 seat venue where everyone gets a seat and work together to get round the wheelchair issue together, I would happily help to lift in and out (in case of a fire etc).
Or would this be a problem legally?

10 years ago at my brothers wedding i was carried up and down a flight of stairs to the reception unfortunately at the end of the evening one guy lost his footing and i ended up going down the last 3 steps on my neck breaking it, neither the APA or the casino would be able to insure against such a thing happening and both would end up bankraupt if such an accident happened

having been to the premises in question previously the steps and stairs are of such a design that it would make it very difficult to carry people safely

also the first APAt event saw all the wheelchair users in fairly lightweight chairs but it is possible that at future events a member in a heavy electric chair could turn up these chairs are heavy enough on there own and would be impossible to lift up a staircase safely

[kinboshi]

The DDA (Disability Discrimination Act) was passed in 1995, stating that: “It's unlawful for a service provider to discriminate against a disabled person by refusing to provide any service which it provides to members of the public.”

All casinos SHOULD be as accessible as possible to the public (whether they are 'members' or not).

The APAT is making the correct decision on this one.  There were three people in wheelchairs at the Broadway Casino, as the numbers at these events increases, this number will surely increase.  Also APAT is still growing, and it should be an inclusive organisation - which is obviously what it is striving to be.

Early teething problems, they'll all get sorted sooner or later.  Keep up the good work.

Casinos don't "provide a service", nor are they open to members of the public. You have to join first, so they are strictly members only.

Casinos and private members clubs have to comply with the DDA if they have over 25 members. 

[DesD]

To endorse what Ironside said, we will not be cutting any corners on this.   

I have spoken to several companies about providing temporary mobility solutions for our preferred venue in Scotland, and health and safety was our number one consideration.  The fact that we are not going to Scotland yet tells its own story about the suitability of the options available. 

As we have pushed the tournament back, the management at the venue in question are now investigating options that would meet all criteria, and in reality they will have several challenges to overcome to integrate a solution, such as the strict building regulations within their listed building etc.  They may not succeed but I hope they do.  They are progressive in their thinking and we would like to take the APAT there.   And if this initiative enables future wheelchair users to use the venue long after the APAT has gone, then what a great win-win for everyone concerned.

Cheers,

Des.

[DesD]

The DDA (Disability Discrimination Act) was passed in 1995, stating that: “It's unlawful for a service provider to discriminate against a disabled person by refusing to provide any service which it provides to members of the public.”

All casinos SHOULD be as accessible as possible to the public (whether they are 'members' or not).

The APAT is making the correct decision on this one.  There were three people in wheelchairs at the Broadway Casino, as the numbers at these events increases, this number will surely increase.  Also APAT is still growing, and it should be an inclusive organisation - which is obviously what it is striving to be.

Early teething problems, they'll all get sorted sooner or later.  Keep up the good work.

Casinos don't "provide a service", nor are they open to members of the public. You have to join first, so they are strictly members only.

Casinos and private members clubs have to comply with the DDA if they have over 25 members. 

Hi Daniel,

My understanding is that there are certain exclusions, on the grounds of building status and the length of time the business has been at that location.   Makes no sense to me in this day and age, but it would clarify that the venue in question is not working outside of the law. 

Regards,

Des.

[temp0r]

Where's Star City please?

if I remember correctly it's absolutely shocking so I won't bother.

It is shocking, the area, the people, the casino, everything!!

whatever! at least if you get knocked out you could go next door to lazer force or goals for some light entertainment to get over it!

[ThinkerJE]

Just a note about communication of this issue.  I think it is great that this has been announced on blonde allowing members to voice their feelings on the matter, however the apat website is still stating the next live event will be in Scotland.  What about the members who are not blonde?  Des, Tikay will the website be updated soon?  I think that communication of changes in schedule should be available to all members.  I also realise that you probably want to announce the new venue at the same time, however some members who are not blonde may not apprecaite this being on blonde only.  Maybe this is not an issue and I don't mean to be negative, the communication to apat members (emails & website) has been excellent, just thought I would mention it.   

[Jon MW]

The DDA (Disability Discrimination Act) was passed in 1995, stating that: “It's unlawful for a service provider to discriminate against a disabled person by refusing to provide any service which it provides to members of the public.”

All casinos SHOULD be as accessible as possible to the public (whether they are 'members' or not).

The APAT is making the correct decision on this one.  There were three people in wheelchairs at the Broadway Casino, as the numbers at these events increases, this number will surely increase.  Also APAT is still growing, and it should be an inclusive organisation - which is obviously what it is striving to be.

Early teething problems, they'll all get sorted sooner or later.  Keep up the good work.

Casinos don't "provide a service", nor are they open to members of the public. You have to join first, so they are strictly members only.

Casinos and private members clubs have to comply with the DDA if they have over 25 members. 

Hi Daniel,

My understanding is that there are certain exclusions, on the grounds of building status and the length of time the business has been at that location.   Makes no sense to me in this day and age, but it would clarify that the venue in question is not working outside of the law. 

Regards,

Des.

Those who are directly affected by this law might know the details, but my impression was that it's virtually toothless. I think if a company can 'prove' that it would be prohibitively expensive they don't have to worry about it.

[DesD]

Hi James,

The details that have been posted in this thread were in direct response to a thread that has been running in the Live Poker category for some time now.  In our last APAT newsletter on Tuesday, I stated that discussions were ongoing concerning the next venue, and that I anticipated being able to update the membership in the next week to ten days.  Until agreement is reached with the venue, there isn't actually anything to announce yet!

Regards,

Des.

[kinboshi]

The DDA (Disability Discrimination Act) was passed in 1995, stating that: “It's unlawful for a service provider to discriminate against a disabled person by refusing to provide any service which it provides to members of the public.”

All casinos SHOULD be as accessible as possible to the public (whether they are 'members' or not).

The APAT is making the correct decision on this one.  There were three people in wheelchairs at the Broadway Casino, as the numbers at these events increases, this number will surely increase.  Also APAT is still growing, and it should be an inclusive organisation - which is obviously what it is striving to be.

Early teething problems, they'll all get sorted sooner or later.  Keep up the good work.

Casinos don't "provide a service", nor are they open to members of the public. You have to join first, so they are strictly members only.

Casinos and private members clubs have to comply with the DDA if they have over 25 members. 

Hi Daniel,

My understanding is that there are certain exclusions, on the grounds of building status and the length of time the business has been at that location.   Makes no sense to me in this day and age, but it would clarify that the venue in question is not working outside of the law. 

Regards,

Des.

Those who are directly affected by this law might know the details, but my impression was that it's virtually toothless. I think if a company can 'prove' that it would be prohibitively expensive they don't have to worry about it.

Des, I did see Tikay mention that the building was listed, and therefore the casino in question would be a special case.  I wasn't criticising that casino - just responding to a point that was made earlier.

Jon, I couldn't agree with you more. The way the DDA is enforced is a joke.  It's like fire safety regulations, it completely depends on the local authorities how they are enforced - or not enforced in many cases.  I work with websites, and the DDA is meant to apply to online services as well as off.  No one has been prosecuted for flouting the DDA - even some very high profile cases have come to nothing - which means that companies can continue to get away with doing nothing to help them comply.

It's good to see the APAT is doing the right thing, and like Des said - this positive stance will benefit people outside the APAT as well.

Just one thing though. If there is going to be wheelchair access and Ironside is going to be taking part - can the APAT issue ear defenders to all players?

[ThinkerJE]

Hi James,

The details that have been posted in this thread were in direct response to a thread that has been running in the Live Poker category for some time now.  In our last APAT newsletter on Tuesday, I stated that discussions were ongoing concerning the next venue, and that I anticipated being able to update the membership in thext week to ten days.  Until agreement is reached with the venue, there isn't actually anything to announce yet!

Regards,

Des.

Cheers Des

I think it is great that blonde can act as a place where you are able to respond to members queries in person and I appreciate that you wanted to address the thread as soon as possible.  Although there is no venue to announce just yet, we do now know it won't be in Scotland, whereas the apat wesite is still advertisng the Sccottish Championship in November.  As the apat website is the main contact for all members then I feel an update on there would ensure all members knew what was happening.  Nuff said about this, communication in general is excellent, just received a mail about the Spanish Open tomorrow, looking forward to it and hoping for medal (well points anyway).

I'm looking forward to the next live event also, regardless of venue, will see you there in November.

[Jon MW]

... Ironside is going to be taking part - can the APAT issue ear defenders to all players?

There must be some Health and Safety Regulations that apply? 

[tikay]

... Ironside is going to be taking part - can the APAT issue ear defenders to all players?

There must be some Health and Safety Regulations that apply? 

Gag him?

Seriously, what a good debate this is, Disabled Access IS important to some folks - VERY important. We've thrashed it around a bit, & that's no bad thing in my opinion, if we can raise the awareness level.

[Ironside]

the DDA is a total joke

in my local city i cannot buy clothes from next unless i want to be a drag queen and to be honest my legs aint good eough

also in the local shopping centre that was built about 10 years ago they have nearly everything perfect a multi storey car park with a shed load of WIDE disabled parking (ok its on the roof with no cover) that are on the flat and has easy access to the centre inside they have the cafe and food halls downstairs with access through a lift, BUT the wh smiths has 3 floors one has access from the street the other from inside the centre with easy access to both areas BUT the 3rd floor has a large staircase to access it with no lift and no way for me to get to it, on the 3rd floor is all the PC stuff games etc DVDs music and the like, they get round the DDA by saying everytime i ask "tell us what you want and we will get it for you" problem is i dont know what i want i like to browse and decide if there is anything i like and they refuse to bring down the whole stock so i can browse

DDA isnt worth the paper it is written on or the time,effort and money wasted on getting into law

[Sympathetic Stan]

Hi James,

The details that have been posted in this thread were in direct response to a thread that has been running in the Live Poker category for some time now.  In our last APAT newsletter on Tuesday, I stated that discussions were ongoing concerning the next venue, and that I anticipated being able to update the membership in thext week to ten days.  Until agreement is reached with the venue, there isn't actually anything to announce yet!

Regards,

Des.

I think that not updating the web-site to inform APAT members that the November event won't be in Scotland could be a potential PR disaster should some people be in the process of booking flights/trains/hotels for Glasgow.  I know that APAT has never said that the event would be in Glasgow but it was always a strong favourite and these costs can be substantially reduced by booking at least a month in advance. 

[DesD]

Hi James,

The details that have been posted in this thread were in direct response to a thread that has been running in the Live Poker category for some time now.  In our last APAT newsletter on Tuesday, I stated that discussions were ongoing concerning the next venue, and that I anticipated being able to update the membership in thext week to ten days.  Until agreement is reached with the venue, there isn't actually anything to announce yet!

Regards,

Des.

I think that not updating the web-site to inform APAT members that the November event won't be in Scotland could be a potential PR disaster should some people be in the process of booking flights/trains/hotels for Glasgow.  I know that APAT has never said that the event would be in Glasgow but it was always a strong favourite and these costs can be substantially reduced by booking at least a month in advance. 

Okay Gents, due to weight of opinion being against me on this one, we will add a piece of warning text to the website later today.  I appreciate your feedback.

Regards,

Des.

edit - that is...when I can get our technology director free over the weekend to make the change.  Unfortunately he was away today.