liverpool "the most over rated team in england"

[turny]

'I'LL LET THE FOOTBALL DO THE TALKING'  famous line from Bob paisley when given the job

Honour's
European Cup Winners : 1976-77 , 1977-78 , 1980-81
UEFA Cup Winners : 1975-76
League Champions: 1975-76 , 1976-77 , 1978-79 , 1979-80 ,1981-82 , 1982-83
Runners up : 1974-75 , 1977-78
League Cup Winners : 1980-81 , 1981-82 , 1982-83
Runners up : 1977-78
F A Cup Finalists : 1976-77
Championship Winners Medal : 1946-47

Quoting stats doesn't constitute a debate, Stein's achievements are well up there, with international team achievements as well. Similarly Ferguson has done it in 2 countries. Greats are greats and comparisons are useless.

you wasting your time rod some people cannot debate they are so far up there own backside to see the world around them 

[crip17]

I was just trying to show that Fergusons' honour's did not 'outshine' that of paisley and shankley.   I agree with you Rod that they were all 'Greats'.(Stein and Clough included).  But you need to look back at inthebelly's comments which is what i was responding too.

[turny]

I was just trying to show that Fergusons' honour's did not 'outshine' that of paisley and shankley.   I agree with you Rod that they were all 'Greats'.(Stein and Clough included).  But you need to look back at inthebelly's comments which is what i was responding too.

and my comment was that i think alex ferguson was the best manager ever. thats my opinion whats wrong with that? others have other opinions but i wouldnt tell them they know nothing for having a different opinion to me.

imo again lol you cant measure a managers ability on honours alone like you seem to be doing.if thats the case we would be saying luca vialli was better than say sam allerdyce because he won 5 trophies in just over a year as manager of chelsea.thats simply not true.

managers work at different clubs with different resources to work with so judging them on honours alone i think is not justified.

if mourinho went on to dominate english footie over the next 5 years with chelsea and win 2/3 champions leagues which is not beyond the realms of possibility, yes it would make him a great manager but again IMO not up there alongside ferguson, shankly and paisley due to the difference in resources hes had to work with.


again these are only my own thoughts and opinions and i apologise for knowing nothing.

[Rooky9]

To be honest I haven't read the whole thread, but I am suprised this hasn't turned into a war zone.

IMO the thread is like holding a red rag to a bull and saying lets discuss why you don't like this colour.

Its all very well saying discuss like adults etc but discussions in the written word are far more difficult than over a pint in a pub. Luckily the Liverpool fans on here aren't too quick to snap - but had this been an Arsenal/Tottenham (or even Newcastle!) debate I would have feared the worst!!

Anyway I don't think Liverpool are overrated. I dont think anyone geniunely believed they would win the title this year. They can be a really good side but lack the consistancy needed to perform in a league format - this will not come without stability and that won't come without playing the same players in the same system in their best positions.

[SupaMonkey]

I actually like the rotation. Last season we had trouble performing in the league after a champions league match. Everytime we had a CL match midweek we went out at the weekend and lost to teams like birmingham etc. We need the extra players and you don't keep good players without rotation.

[turny]

To be honest I haven't read the whole thread, but I am suprised this hasn't turned into a war zone.

IMO the thread is like holding a red rag to a bull and saying lets discuss why you don't like this colour.

Its all very well saying discuss like adults etc but discussions in the written word are far more difficult than over a pint in a pub. Luckily the Liverpool fans on here aren't too quick to snap - but had this been an Arsenal/Tottenham (or even Newcastle!) debate I would have feared the worst!!

Anyway I don't think Liverpool are overrated. I dont think anyone geniunely believed they would win the title this year. They can be a really good side but lack the consistancy needed to perform in a league format - this will not come without stability and that won't come without playing the same players in the same system in their best positions.

we both know that if this thread was up a few weeks ago then it would have turned into a flaming war. i dont think it has anything to do with liverpool fans not being quick to snap and i think its rather unfair to point out fans of other clubs as an example of fans who would snap.a few weeks ago all would snap so its a credit to liverpool fans now that they have not.

i think in light of recent events on blonde posters are thinking more before pressing the enter button which then makes for a much better debate instead of just throwing insults.

a number of good points have been made on here by a number of different posters looking at things as objectively as they can and doing there best to remove thier colour tinted glasses.

apart from mr crips who obviously has his red tinted glasses welded to his head thier has been no hit of personal insult or flaming.

yes i admit it sorry.   i did put this thread up as a bit of a test for blondites  to see if we had all learnt from recent events on here.


  the majority passed with flying colours 

[The Baron]

The one feat Fergie's got that no others have is winning European trophies and league titles in 2 countries.

Cough - Benitez - cough - Valencia!

[The Baron]

'I'LL LET THE FOOTBALL DO THE TALKING'  famous line from Bob paisley when given the job

Honour's
European Cup Winners : 1976-77 , 1977-78 , 1980-81
UEFA Cup Winners : 1975-76
League Champions: 1975-76 , 1976-77 , 1978-79 , 1979-80 ,1981-82 , 1982-83
Runners up : 1974-75 , 1977-78
League Cup Winners : 1980-81 , 1981-82 , 1982-83
Runners up : 1977-78
F A Cup Finalists : 1976-77
Championship Winners Medal : 1946-47

Quoting stats doesn't constitute a debate, Stein's achievements are well up there, with international team achievements as well. Similarly Ferguson has done it in 2 countries. Greats are greats and comparisons are useless.

you wasting your time rod some people cannot debate they are so far up there own backside to see the world around them 

This is a really interesting thread guys, let's not get personal eh?

I agree with what Rod and ITB are saying but trophies are everything in football in my opinion. Resources or not.

You think Mourinho will be remembered for spending loads of money or winning trophies? The first league titles for Chelsea in 50 years? Obviously it will be for the trophies.

When it's all said and done that's what will be remembered first and foremost.

By that reckoning Paisley is #1 for me.

[kinboshi]

The one feat Fergie's got that no others have is winning European trophies and league titles in 2 countries.

Cough - Benitez - cough - Valencia!

Damn - you beat me to it.

I was also going to say that does it count winning trophies in a minor footballing nation - but that might be a little inflammatory...

[The Baron]

This articale sums up perfectly where we are right now....

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/NG153873061025-0814.htm

[turny]

The one feat Fergie's got that no others have is winning European trophies and league titles in 2 countries.

Cough - Benitez - cough - Valencia!

Damn - you beat me to it.

I was also going to say that does it count winning trophies in a minor footballing nation - but that might be a little inflammatory...

cough-murinho-cough-porto


still doesnt make him as good as ferguson.

il acccept the paisley shankly argument but benetez in same breath as ferguson come on!

[mikkyT]

please please please lets not let this thread get into a flaming and abusive war.

lets take off our red tinted,blue tinted and green with puple spots tinted glasses off please.

my point is all the pundits and all there supporters were screaming from the rooftops to all and sundry who would listen that this would be there season in the premiership. that they would be the main danger to chelsea.

its not even the end of october and they are already imo out of the title race 11 points behind man utd and chelsea.

i know the liverpool supporters will start spouting about the champions league etc which was i agree a great achievement but thats largely a cup competition which it seems liverpool are very good at raising themselves for one off games but to do it week in week out over a season they dont seem good enough.

imo take steven gerrard out the liverpool team and they're a run of the mill mid table side with him a top 4/5 side.

man utd completely out classed them sunday and i cant see it improving and some of benetez's team decisions and signings are baffling.


as i say please lets not flame lets discus.... your views please

I agree. This season Liverpool have become what Man U have been for the past 3 seasons. mediocre at best. Seems Man U have gotten off to their best start for quite a while. The season is not yet over, and we can only pray that they suffer a couple of injuries because they have no real strength in reserve.

[Rooky9]

The one feat Fergie's got that no others have is winning European trophies and league titles in 2 countries.

Cough - Benitez - cough - Valencia!

Damn - you beat me to it.

I was also going to say that does it count winning trophies in a minor footballing nation - but that might be a little inflammatory...

cough-murinho-cough-porto

Whats the second club he has won a European trophy at?

[The Baron]

The one feat Fergie's got that no others have is winning European trophies and league titles in 2 countries.

Cough - Benitez - cough - Valencia!

Damn - you beat me to it.

I was also going to say that does it count winning trophies in a minor footballing nation - but that might be a little inflammatory...

cough-murinho-cough-porto


still doesnt make him as good as ferguson.

il acccept the paisley shankly argument but benetez in same breath as ferguson come on!

I didn't mean to imply he was in the same league as Ferguson - I was merely picking a hole in Rod's "European trophies in different leagues" argument as a reason why Ferguson was the best in his opinion.

The way I see it you can argue ANYTHING to make one manager more successful than another (as Rod has done with that statement) but trophies are the one constant that cannot be argued against!

If Mourinho wins 5 European Cups ans 10 league titles with Chelsea then YES he is the best manager ever IMO.

Also - out of interest, I think the start to Benitez career as a manager is very much on a par with Ferguson's  - he's only really starting out though. (The same argument could be had about comparing Mourinho to a younger Ferguson.)

[dan]

To be honest I haven't read the whole thread, but I am suprised this hasn't turned into a war zone.

IMO the thread is like holding a red rag to a bull and saying lets discuss why you don't like this colour.

Its all very well saying discuss like adults etc but discussions in the written word are far more difficult than over a pint in a pub. Luckily the Liverpool fans on here aren't too quick to snap - but had this been an Arsenal/Tottenham (or even Newcastle!) debate I would have feared the worst!!

Anyway I don't think Liverpool are overrated. I dont think anyone geniunely believed they would win the title this year. They can be a really good side but lack the consistancy needed to perform in a league format - this will not come without stability and that won't come without playing the same players in the same system in their best positions.

i dont think that an arsenal/ tottenham debate has ever turned into a flaming war at all.

i actually get on/got on quite well with nemisis( i assume that this is who we are talking about ) and i get on ok with kev.

who says liverpool are overrated anyway?? i never expect them to finish any higher than 3rd or 4th, does anybody else?

as for who is the greatest manager, i dont care all i know is that arsene wenger is with doubt the greatest manager we have evr had and one of the best this country has ever seen... No, before you say it, he hasnt won 32 champions leagues etc but he has taken our club from a top 6 club to challenging for the league every season (apart from last season). he has taken us into a new stadium, and yes he had a hell of a lot to do with it along with brand new training ground.

he has us playing the best football i have ever seen in this country, we have won 2 doubles and so on won the league unbeaten.

oh and thanks baron, for reminding me about our bet....i had forgot