Tens are just getting me in to trouble

[Newmanseye]

Now dod I overplay my tens here or was I right to call off a third of my stack?

I was sure I was up against a couple of big aces, hence the call, but was it a good one.

BTW not a bad beat story, it was almost a coinflip so no complaining from me, just trying to improve my game.

tage #542731600 Tourney ID 1275998 Holdem Multi Normal Tournament No Limit $40 - 2006-11-09 07:41:02 (ET)
Table: 127 (Real Money) Seat #5 is the dealer
Seat 1 - FARCANELMATE ($1910 in chips)
Seat 2 - K_I_N_G_ ($1065 in chips)
Seat 3 - JAKE79 ($1955 in chips)
Seat 4 - BUMMMM ($3280 in chips)
Seat 5 - NEWMANSEYE ($9810 in chips)
Seat 6 - ZOLIAKEZDO ($1195 in chips)
Seat 7 - SPICYEDDIE ($2500 in chips)
Seat 8 - BREANNASDAD ($1160 in chips)
Seat 9 - JUNNUKKA ($2750 in chips)
ZOLIAKEZDO - Posts small blind $20
SPICYEDDIE - Posts big blind $40
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to NEWMANSEYE [10s 10d]
BREANNASDAD - Folds
JUNNUKKA - Folds
FARCANELMATE - Raises $80 to $80
K_I_N_G_ - Folds
JAKE79 - Folds
BUMMMM - Folds
NEWMANSEYE - Raises $480 to $480
ZOLIAKEZDO - Calls $460
SPICYEDDIE - All-In(Raise) $2460 to $2500
FARCANELMATE - All-In $1830
NEWMANSEYE - Calls $2020
ZOLIAKEZDO - All-In $715
*** FLOP *** [Ah ]
*** TURN *** [Ah ] []
*** RIVER *** [Ah ] []
*** SHOW DOWN ***
FARCANELMATE - Shows [As ] (One pair, aces)
NEWMANSEYE - Shows [10s 10d] (One pair, tens)
ZOLIAKEZDO - Shows [ ] (Three of a kind, fives)
SPICYEDDIE - Shows [ ] (One pair, aces)
SPICYEDDIE Collects $1180 from side pot-2
SPICYEDDIE Collects $2145 from side pot-1
ZOLIAKEZDO Collects $4780 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($8105:$4780,$2145,$1180)
Board [Ah ]
Seat 1: FARCANELMATE HI:lost with One pair, aces [As - P:As,B:Ah,P:,B:,B:]
Seat 2: K_I_N_G_ Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 3: JAKE79 Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 4: BUMMMM Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 5: NEWMANSEYE (dealer) HI:lost with One pair, tens [10s 10d - P:10s,P:10d,B:Ah,B:,B:]
Seat 6: ZOLIAKEZDO (small blind) won Total ($4780) All-In HI:($4780) with Three of a kind, fives [ - P:,B:,P:,B:Ah,B:]
Seat 7: SPICYEDDIE (big blind) won Total ($3325) All-In HI:($3325) with One pair, aces(king kicker) [ - B:Ah,P:,P:,B:,B:]
Seat 8: BREANNASDAD Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 9: JUNNUKKA Folded on the POCKET CARDS

[Eck]

What site was this on?

WWW.MUSTHAVECAPSLOCKONPOKER.COM 

[Newmanseye]

What site was this on?

WWW.MUSTHAVECAPSLOCKONPOKER.COM 

Absolute poker.

[Graham C]

I don't like 10's.  I would have called the initial raise rather and hope to see what the flop brings. Probably wouldn't have gone all in preflop with them. Just me though, plenty of people seem happy to stick it all in with 5's or above! 

[boldie]

I don't like 10's.  I would have called the initial raise rather and hope to see what the flop brings. Probably wouldn't have gone all in preflop with them. Just me though, plenty of people seem happy to stick it all in with 5's or above! 

You can't call an all in with tens in this position.

It was raised and you re-raise..fair enough although I probably would only have called with it.

as soon as the rest of the table goes all in you're probably behind and can safely fold them. Of course in this case pre-flop you're ahead but I probably would have saves myself the extra 1500 and got my chippies back with that later on.

It's not like you couldn't afford the call...I just don't like making em, although plenty of people in your situation (With the decent chipstack you have, low blind levels there are and a big pot up for grabs if you do hit your ten) would make it.

I don't like it but plenty of people will be fine with the play you made.

edit* this is one of those wonderfull situations that everyone can disagree on.

[Sheriff Fatman]

I'm puzzled by the size of your pre-flop raise, which is a pretty big overbet.

Given the stacks around you this bet is effectively saying 'play against me and you're playing for all your chips' so you're almost daring someone to take a shot at you with it.  I also often see bets like this from people with good but vulnerable hands (usually JJ-99, sometimes QQ or a lower pair) who make larger than usual raises in an attempt to deter people from outdrawing them.  I think the bet size conveys 'good but not a monster' and is part of the problem here.

Given the action back around to you (and the fact that the last player to act isn't likely to fold either) you could almost argue that you are getting odds to make the call.  However, at best you're dodging some overcards here, given the action.  At worst you're behind and effectively trying to hit a set to win.

Blinds are $20/40, its early in the comp, so even if you win you still only have a small % of the chips in play (i.e. its not a case of 'win this hand, win the comp') so I think its a fold here.  However, its a much easier fold if you make a smaller raise on the flop, which is where I think the problem lies.

Sheriff

[Newmanseye]

The table had still not settled, so raises preflop were just crazy, I re raised 5 * his the min raisers bet, so not a huge overbet considering the circumstances.

[boldie]

The table had still not settled, so raises preflop were just crazy, I re raised 5 * his the min raisers bet, so not a huge overbet considering the circumstances.

I don't really have a big problem with the reraise 5x the first bet (Though as I said..a flatcall would have been the way to go IMO, ESPECIALLY, when the table hasn't settled yet)..yes you tell everyone..if you're playing you're playing for all your chips BUT that's what happens early stage of a tourney.

you can't call the all-in though I think.

[Sheriff Fatman]

The table had still not settled, so raises preflop were just crazy, I re raised 5 * his the min raisers bet, so not a huge overbet considering the circumstances.

I don't really have a big problem with the reraise 5x the first bet (Though as I said..a flatcall would have been the way to go IMO, ESPECIALLY, when the table hasn't settled yet)..yes you tell everyone..if you're playing you're playing for all your chips BUT that's what happens early stage of a tourney.

you can't call the all-in though I think.

But that's why I think the raise (and its statement) is part of the problem.  It basically creates the mindset that you'll end up calling an all-in on the hand (and if the table is still crazy then you can fully expect someone to go all-in preflop).  Its a reasonable gamble if you end up heads up in that situation but if you've already made the bet with the expectation that you won't fold to any subsequent action then it blinds you to the fact that, against 4 players, you've got a lot of bullets to dodge when making the call.

One question Billy - do you make the same size raise there if you're one of the average stacks rather than a big chip leader on the table?

[Newmanseye]

One question Billy - do you make the same size raise there if you're one of the average stacks rather than a big chip leader on the table?
[/quote]

Good question, and given the situation I probably have to say yes, and I'm committing myself preflop if I do.

moment of enlightenment for me!

[Sheriff Fatman]

Good question, and given the situation I probably have to say yes, and I'm committing myself preflop if I do.

moment of enlightenment for me!

I'm not saying that doing so is necessarily wrong - its a question of style and approach to the tournament (gambling pre-flop with TT early on is probably even money to be a double up or bust situation, given that you'll get very loose calls on occasion too).

I just think that a raise of that size shows more 'vulnerability' than a more standard raise to, say, 300 (which, to me, is much more difficult to define).

[Newmanseye]

Good question, and given the situation I probably have to say yes, and I'm committing myself preflop if I do.

moment of enlightenment for me!

I'm not saying that doing so is necessarily wrong - its a question of style and approach to the tournament (gambling pre-flop with TT early on is probably even money to be a double up or bust situation, given that you'll get very loose calls on occasion too).

I just think that a raise of that size shows more 'vulnerability' than a more standard raise to, say, 300 (which, to me, is much more difficult to define).

Good point and taken onboard Curtis.  thanks 

[scotty2hatty]

i like tens

PokerStars Game #6972269020:  Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2006/11/10 - 20:05:45 (ET)
Table 'Pavo V' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: onlyfools ($135.95 in chips)
Seat 2: FreakOutZone ($98.40 in chips)
Seat 3: a320 ($99 in chips)
Seat 4: edsters ($117.55 in chips)
Seat 5: Biocleaner ($71.65 in chips)
Seat 6: VITALvvp ($12.55 in chips)
Seat 7: contamines ($102.15 in chips)
Seat 8: Tru_Dat ($90.30 in chips)
Seat 9: thanx4chips ($99.70 in chips)
a320: posts small blind $0.50
edsters: posts big blind $1
thanx4chips: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to thanx4chips [ ]
Biocleaner: folds
VITALvvp: folds
contamines: calls $1
Tru_Dat: folds
thanx4chips: raises $3 to $4
onlyfools: folds
FreakOutZone: folds
a320: folds
edsters: folds
contamines: calls $3
*** FLOP *** [ ]
contamines: bets $5
thanx4chips: calls $5
*** TURN *** [ ] []
contamines: bets $15
thanx4chips: raises $15 to $30
contamines: raises $63.15 to $93.15 and is all-in
thanx4chips: calls $60.70 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
*** SHOW DOWN ***
contamines: shows [ As] (a pair of Tens)
thanx4chips: shows [ ] (four of a kind, Tens)
thanx4chips collected $197.90 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $200.90 | Rake $3
Board [ ]
Seat 1: onlyfools folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: FreakOutZone (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: a320 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: edsters (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: Biocleaner folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: VITALvvp folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: contamines showed [ As] and lost with a pair of Tens
Seat 8: Tru_Dat folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: thanx4chips showed [ ] and won ($197.90) with four of a kind, Tens