BNP Leader cleared of race hate

[GlasgowBandit]

I'm not a fan of the SNP myself Tank although if it was a straight choice between them and the BNP its a no brainer for me.

The probelm I see is the main stream political parties have deserted the working class, it used to be the case that Labour could be depended upon to show solidarity with the workers but Blair realised this wasn't going to see them take power and re-shaped the party so as to attract middle England and disgruntled Tories.

I don't see enough solidarity work being done, neither do I see enough ground work being done.  The only time I ever see my local councillor or MP is when an election is approaching.  They don't campaign on the issues they say they will when the stand for election.  This IMO is the reason why the BNP can get a foothold in many places in England.  I think the Scottish are more sane than some parts of England and we see through them, plus we have activists who will confront the BNP and any fascist elements both politically and through physical confrontation.

Personally I'd gladly see the socialists and working class work together but unfortunately there are too many meglomaniacs who want all the power to themselves.  IMO Tommy Sheridan has destroyed any chance the working class ever had of gaining decent representation, I think it will be a long time before the left in scotland recovers.

[ifm]

Nothing wrong with freedom of speech.

[thetank]

In Party Politics or the blonde forum?

[CelticGeezeer]

This has nothing to do with freedom of speech, this case was about inciting racial hatred. The government are so concerned about the outcome they are considering changing the law.

[tantrum]

From what i understand, the reason why he was let free was a technicality as he was tried under race relations Act, and according to law Muslims are not ethnic minority, therefore he has not committed a crime as they (Muslims as a group) are not protected by that Act.

If in his speech that was recorded he has referred to the specific ethnic group that is under the protection of this act he would go down. I think there is going to be new statute out soon, but the problem of course is if those people go underground it will be more difficult to control them and monitor them.  Reading some of the rhetorics of popular press and some of the policies of Labour government is not suprising that BNP has a fair number of supporters.  Scaremongering is nothing new, and since the beginning of the human kind, some governments chose to blame all the troubles of the country on foreigners.  The distortion of facts and twisting a history is a convenient tool for brainwashing.

What i found amazing in this country is that many pple say things like ; we are such a small island, we are swamped with immigrants, but if i ask those people to give me exact size of their country/population nr and so on, they have no idea.

Some repeat slogans from the sun. daily telegraph, but are too lazy to do independent research into the fair, objective facts.
BNP is no different from any fundamentalist movement that counts on people's lack of education.

Recently someone i know claimed that immigrants are responsible for a draught in this country. the idiotic statement of some people who claim to be fairy educated is scary, but that's part of the reality, and IMO the fact that Blair is so pro faith schools being separated will not improve things among various cultures.  The tolerance is tought by your parents and environment, putting up new laws will not change the reality, spending some money in order to educate people would be more effective but then who would be blamed for Goverment's failing policies?

[ifm]

In Party Politics or the blonde forum?

Either, the reason this guys party is becoming more popular has little (or anything) to do with him or his speeches it's because people are experiencing for themselves the effects of this governments immigration policies.
Because his party is the only one with a stand on immigration he will become stronger, the problem is of course that their policies go much further than just stemming immigration but people may not even know what they are!

[tantrum]

The goverment's immigration policies has nothing to do with they poverty and falling NHS/education in this country....
But BNP and other morons use them as a scapegoat. 

Immigrants as it happens contribute to this country in equal measures if not more as 99% do not take money back from the system.

Because his party is the only one with a stand on immigration he will become stronger, the problem is of course that their policies go much further than just stemming immigration but people may not even know what they are!

Hahaha sry, but this is load of bxxxxx, each party has immigration policy that suits their goverment. It is known fact that illegal immigration is one of the best way to keep wages low and keep the small bussinesses going.  Form of economic explotation. Anyone thinking that this goverment's immigration policy is out of control is uninformed at least.  Also a lot of policies are there to serve big corporations financial interests and have nothing to do with the wellbeing of citizens. 

It is called capitalism and law of economics.

[Scottish Dave]

Kev,

Flushy says hes gonna teach you how to be a pro like him, hope you have your notebook Back of a Stamp and pencil ready!

I dont usually laugh at my own jokes but.....

[ifm]

The goverment's immigration policies has nothing to do with they poverty and falling NHS/education in this country....
But BNP and other morons use them as a scapegoat. 

Huh, i never mentioned any of that

Immigrants as it happens contribute to this country in equal measures if not more as 99% do not take money back from the system.

That makes little sense to me, who doesn't take money back?
I don't understand.

Hahaha sry, but this is load of bxxxxx, each party has immigration policy that suits their goverment. It is known fact that illegal immigration is one of the best way to keep wages low and keep the small bussinesses going.  Form of economic explotation. Anyone thinking that this goverment's immigration policy is out of control is uninformed at least.  Also a lot of policies are there to serve big corporations financial interests and have nothing to do with the wellbeing of citizens. 

It is pretty common knowledge that there are few restrictions on immigration at the moment, the figures rise yearly and even the government themselves admit to being caught out by it.

Anyway my point was to do with the BNP gaining members on the back of a single policy not to debate the governments policies.

[tantrum]

immigrants most of them do not claim benefits and so on...

It is pretty common knowledge that there are few restrictions on immigration at the moment, the figures rise yearly and even the government themselves admit to being caught out by it.

and this knoledge came from what? surely you don't know many immigrants otherwise you would not say this.

I would advice you to do some research on what it takes to come to this country and then perhaps we can have this discussion. 

it's because people are experiencing for themselves the effects of this governments immigration policies.

  I am sure that the effect you are talking here are not positive ones.

[Royal Flush]

 

[ifm]

immigrants most of them do not claim benefits and so on...

It is pretty common knowledge that there are few restrictions on immigration at the moment, the figures rise yearly and even the government themselves admit to being caught out by it.

and this knoledge came from what? surely you don't know many immigrants otherwise you would not say this.

I would advice you to do some research on what it takes to come to this country and then perhaps we can have this discussion. 

it's because people are experiencing for themselves the effects of this governments immigration policies.

  I am sure that the effect you are talking here are not positive ones.

I do not wish to discuss this at all with you, though i think your stat that 99% of immigrants do not take money from the system is a bit.........erm.........daft.

As i have tried to explain my point was to do with this guys party gaining membership.

[CelticGeezeer]

In Germany the Jews were the immigrants, the Nazi's got a lot of support there too.

Perhaps we should make sure that same don't happen here

[tantrum]

 

As i have tried to explain my point was to do with this guys party gaining membership.

But explaining the reasons for joining BNP are not necessary.  BNP members are morons whatever their excuse is for joining the party.

[AndrewT]

The BNP do serve a purpose in politics in that they act as a bellwether as to the underlying feeling of a section of the working classes, a sector which has been completely abandoned by the mainstream political parties. If there was no BNP, the white working class who feel there is too much immigration would not feel inclined to vote and so their voices would go unheard. As it is, every time the BNP pick up some votes in an election and get some publicity we are reminded that a) there are people for whom the policies of the BNP are attractive and b) there aren't actually that many of these people in this country (because the BNP never actually get many votes which aren't kneejerk reactionary votes).

Compared to other European countries, the far right are a tiny minority in the UK. There will always be a far right party in British politics, which is entirely correct (anyone can stand on any platform in our elections). Over the years, however, the overwhelming majority of the British people have continually rejected them.

The immigration debate is nothing to do with race (which is an artificial cultural construct anyway), it's all about economics. Employers know they can pay immigrants less than native Britons and, as all major political decisions are made on the basis of 'what is good for the economy?', immigration was welcomed. The employers don't see the newcomers as 'immigrants' though (ie people different from themselves), they just view them as 'cheap labour'. Politicians did not understand/consider the cultural and societal implications of cheap labour however, and some white Britons felt as though they were abandoned by their government - that's what causes the rise of the BNP.

If the BNP growing wakes the major political parties up to the fact there is great discontent in a section of society then they can maybe address some of those issues (most of which are actually about lack of economic regeneration in poor areas and not about immigration at all), which would be a good thing.