STT question

[thetank]

I play at the $50 level, and there are usually plenty people playing loose early on. 6 or 7 out of 9 would play 67s in that spot.

If I went to games where only 1 or 2 would, yes, I'd have to loosen up. As long as my STT games are still loose though, tight will always be right.


I think the majority of my edge comes from the loose players, rather than playing better push poker than the other tight players.

[vegaslover]

I think the majority of my edge comes from the loose players, rather than playing better push poker than the other tight players.

Agree, there are plenty of loose players to profit from.

Jezza, I don't think it's a case of good players folding and bad players calling, more a variation on styles.
I prefer the tight early/ sudden gear change later as that is what is pfofitable for me.

[jezza777]

I think the majority of my edge comes from the loose players, rather than playing better push poker than the other tight players.

Agree, there are plenty of loose players to profit from.

Jezza, I don't think it's a case of good players folding and bad players calling, more a variation on styles.
I prefer the tight early/ sudden gear change later as that is what is pfofitable for me.

I never said it was.  I am just trying to get to the bottom of both styles of play so I can play either depending on the table. I don't doubt that both styles require skill to play well and both styles can also reap a profit.

[thetank]

I find it of note that, although the two styles are fundamentally opposite at the beginning of the tournament, they both converge to play the same near the end.

It's like a bad piece of Belgian poetry.

[Wardonkey]

It's like a bad piece of Belgian poetry.

Please provide an example.

[thetank]

http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=17465.msg357615#msg357615

but with choccy instead of ducky

[jezza777]

Can you calculate the value of playing style?

ie I will get called by a wider range of hands as I have been more active, but I will also get paid if I have a hand. Whereas the tight style can win pots without contest but will only get called by strong hands.

So based on previous action when the tournament is in the endstages and the styles merge which is the most profitable.

I am rambling, off for coco and a think

[thetank]

Empiral obvservations are probably the best way to decide which one's best.

Play different ones for a bit, see which is making the most, and also which you feel more comfortable with.

Probably tough to say which method is superior, as it'll be a different answer for everyone.

[RobS]

I limp 67s on the button in level 1 of an STT with multiple limpers without a second's thought. I also think that passing KQ in this spot is ridiculous.

Two years ago the ultra tight early, ultra aggressive late style was enough to clean up in STT's, not anymore though (at the higher buyins), if you play this way against decent players they will know exactly what you are doing and adjust by simply not paying you off early and widening their calling ranges against you late.

I can see the argument of playing like this if 8-tabling or whatever but in terms of money won per STT it is not the way forward. Hourly rate is perhaps a different matter though.

[jezza777]

Empiral obvservations are probably the best way to decide which one's best.

Play different ones for a bit, see which is making the most, and also which you feel more comfortable with.

Probably tough to say which method is superior, as it'll be a different answer for everyone.

**Looks up empiral**  Ah yes I agree. I don't think either method is superior per se and I think it is hugely important to play not only at levels where you feel comfortable but but to develop a style you feel comfortable using too.
Do you make notes on players Tank or are there too many tables on the go ? As the standard of play improves which generally means tighter play do you think you will need to significantly adapt your style to keep winning? Also do you worry that you will get "found out" and people will adapt to nullify your edge? Are there enough bad players to keep you in tatties and beer?

[Wardonkey]

Two years ago the ultra tight early, ultra aggressive late style was enough to clean up in STT's, not anymore though (at the higher buyins), if you play this way against decent players they will know exactly what you are doing and adjust by simply not paying you off early and widening their calling ranges against you late.

There are enough bad players even at $100 and $200 that keep paying me off...

The money is coming from the bad players it's just a matter of which good players get it, if I'm not the biggest winner in the games I play then it must be very close. My ROI has dropped slightly over the last 18 months but I put this down to playing more tables at higher levels rather than people catching on to my strategy.

The main advantage of the ultra-agressive endgame is that there is no effective defence, widening your calling range hurts the caller as much as the bettor, good players know this.

EDIT

That seems a bit arrogant, I'm not saying that I play perfectly or that there is only one way to play. A lot of my edge comes from knowing my opponents and I do mix it up a bit in the middle and end stages. I play what I think is the best way to get the maximum out of the games I play in, different games require different methods depending on opponents and structures.

[thetank]

I think I spelled empirical wrong. Doesn't help if people are looking it up, sorry 'bout that. 

Do you make notes on players Tank or are there too many tables on the go ?

Where I can. Most of the time I only play four nowadays, and have plenty time to make notes. The most valuable (IMO) is knowing whether someone is going to call you with their ace rag after they limp.

 Also do you worry that you will get "found out" and people will adapt to nullify your edge? Are there enough bad players to keep you in tatties and beer?

This hand will answer that question better than I could.

Single-Table Tournament
Table Name Hand ID Game Stakes
$50 - NL - 9 Seats 13888981-8 Holdem No Limit 20/40
 Hand Start.
 Seat 1 : Son0fZeus has $2,000
 Seat 2 : darenp1 has $1,980
 Seat 3 : whip1140 has $1,920
 Seat 4 : Crazy Ivan has $1,920
 Seat 5 : bonkytwonk has $2,120
 Seat 6 : garryl34 has $2,320
 Seat 7 : Kengo has $2,240
 Seat 8 : monopoly7 has $1,860
 Seat 9 : Depaor70 has $1,640
 monopoly7 is the dealer.
Depaor70 posted small blind.
 Son0fZeus posted big blind.
 Game [8] started with 9 players.
 Dealing Hole Cards.
 Seat 1 : Son0fZeus has
 darenp1 folded.
 whip1140 folded.
 Crazy Ivan folded.
 bonkytwonk folded.
 garryl34 folded.
Kengo called 40 and raised 160
 Stakes: 20/40 Current level: 1 Next level in: 1 min. 
 monopoly7 folded.
 Depaor70 folded.
 Son0fZeus called 160 and raised 640
Kengo called 640
 Dealing flop.
 Board cards [ ]
Son0fZeus bet 1,160 and is All-in
 Stakes: 20/40 Current level: 1 Next level in: 1 min. 
 Kengo has 10 seconds to respond.
Kengo called 1,160
 Showdown!
 Seat 1 : Son0fZeus has
 Seat 7 : Kengo has  
 Board cards [ ]
 Son0fZeus wins 4,020 with Two Pair: Kings and Sixes   
 Kengo : nh
 Hand is over.
 

If the well ever does dry up, I'll just have to find something else to do.

[Rookie (Rodney)]

Lol can i add an example please tank?

***** Hand History for Game 5487833364 *****
NL Texas Hold'em 55 Buy-in Trny: 30669173 Level: 1   Blinds(20/40) - Thursday, December 07, 08:28:49 ET 2006
Table Speed #1304553 (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 2: altinlala ( 2000 )
Seat 9: HatWin007 ( 2000 )
Seat 10: dreamkiller_ ( 2000 )
Seat 6: BPRookieITB ( 2000 )
Seat 7: madgreek777 ( 2000 )
Seat 8: salut1 ( 2000 )
Seat 5: SONICBOOM7 ( 2000 )
Seat 1: johny9111 ( 2000 )
Seat 4: xc9964c ( 2000 )
Seat 3: BigChaim ( 2000 )
Trny: 30669173 Level: 1
 Blinds(20/40)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to BPRookieITB [  Ah ]
dreamkiller_ folds
johny9111 folds
altinlala folds
BigChaim calls [40]
xc9964c folds
SONICBOOM7 folds
BPRookieITB raises [160]
madgreek777 folds
salut1 folds
HatWin007 folds
BigChaim calls [120]
** Dealing Flop ** [ , , ]
BigChaim bets [160]
BPRookieITB raises [480]
BigChaim calls [320]
** Dealing Turn ** [ ]
BigChaim bets [440]
BPRookieITB is all-In  [1360]
>You have options at Speed #1304241 Table!.
BigChaim is all-In  [920]
** Dealing River ** [ ]
BigChaim shows [ , ]a pair of Sixes.
BPRookieITB shows [ Ah, ]a pair of Aces.
BPRookieITB wins 4060 chips from  the main pot  with a pair of Aces.
BigChaim finished in 10 place.


First hand this one, of a $55 sng on party.

[Rookie (Rodney)]

Ok heres one, how do you play your AK in the middle-ish level. 50/100.. no info. Party SNG $55

***** Hand History for Game 5488039017 *****
NL Texas Hold'em 55 Buy-in Trny: 30670315 Level: 3   Blinds(50/100) - Thursday, December 07, 10:34:29 ET 2006
Table Speed #1304781 (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: PIPPO1975 ( 2350 )
Seat 3: leeCloo ( 4050 )
Seat 4: my_number_245 ( 2020 )
Seat 6: strelok666 ( 1670 )
Seat 7: AKnightOwl ( 1860 )
Seat 9: Lube_Al_Anal ( 1840 )
Seat 10: drmengele222 ( 2580 )
Seat 8: BPRookieITB ( 1790 )
Seat 5: Attilarex ( 1840 )
Trny: 30670315 Level: 3
 Blinds(50/100)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to BPRookieITB [  ]
PIPPO1975 did not respond in time
PIPPO1975 folds
leeCloo folds
my_number_245 folds
Attilarex calls [100]
strelok666 folds
AKnightOwl raises [400]
BPRookieITB?

[vegaslover]

With no info whatso ever, i'd fold, but then i make a rock look loose at times.