New Session Charge At Grosvenor

[tikay]

The problem it appears to me is that most of the 'new breed' of players, the ones pushing up the numbers, are not the same people who go and play table games, they come for the poker and thats it. So despite the increase in runners the increase in gaming is not proportionate.

Nail/head.

Casinos traditionally didn't mind making a loss on poker as it was used as a loss leader to get extra punters through the door - punters who would be only too glad to wander over to the table games once they'd had a few drinks inside them.

Nowadays, there is an ever increasing amount of new players who have no interest in table games whatsoever. With the current charge restrictions, casinos are not able to make any money from these people, who pay their £3 reg fee and then help themselves to the free drinks all night before going home.

These new charges are simply the casinos trying to make the poker pay for itself.

I confess to never having spent a bean on Table Games in any Grosvenor since I began playing Poker.... So yes, Andrew has a point there!

[dik9]

I think everyone is missing the point entirely here.

If 0 people turn up at the casino/cardroom then the casino will make a loss  /  overheads, staff etc

If 10 people turn up and only 1 person plays they make money from food/alchahol etc but the one person may win so they make a loss, he may lose 10k in which case it was worth it, that is the only gamble a casino takes.

100 play a card tourny only 10 may play the house games, 50 may have a beer or two, 25 may have a sit down meal, 15 may play fruit machines, 20 may bring guests (and those guests will be doing something whilst the poker is on.

The Casino would if they could grab people off the street and give them a free £10 chip, the object is to get them in to have a shot at something, If a poker comp generates £10k that is £10k in the casino that they have a shot at.

The staffing issue is bllx, as how many staff as soon as tables are broke are dragged back into the pit? £85 for every cardroom staff? that must be London!!

As far as I can see, the gaming act hasn't changed, but some smart alec as studied the gaming act and found that a session fee can be charged.

" There is also provision under the Gaming Clubs (Hours and Charges) Regulations 1984 for a casino to charge an hourly rate for the use of the facilities. This could be in addition to any fixed charge. There is no mention of a maximum hourly amount in the Act."

This does not just refer to poker btw!! But the cardroom is where it is/will be implemented.

A £500 + £50 reg fee adds £500 in reg fee to the house as it is, take out the so called £85 for dealer and a cumulative fee of £15 for other costs i.e. TD runner leccy etc the house is in £400 profit per table and they want to charge you more? If you are happy with this then no problems, also if you would like to donate some extra dollars to my Blonde account please feel free

[dik9]

This is without the money recouped from cash session fees, which some days run at £1500 + total @ £5 per hour in a well known club.

[I KNOW IT]

As far as I can see, the gaming act hasn't changed, but some smart alec as studied the gaming act and found that a session fee can be charged.

" There is also provision under the Gaming Clubs (Hours and Charges) Regulations 1984 for a casino to charge an hourly rate for the use of the facilities. This could be in addition to any fixed charge. There is no mention of a maximum hourly amount in the Act."

This does not just refer to poker btw!! But the cardroom is where it is/will be implemented.

A £500 + £50 reg fee adds £500 in reg fee to the house as it is, take out the so called £85 for dealer and a cumulative fee of £15 for other costs i.e. TD runner leccy etc the house is in £400 profit per table and they want to charge you more? If you are happy with this then no problems, also if you would like to donate some extra dollars to my Blonde account please feel free

Or someone posts the info on forums for them to see

[dik9]

 

Damage looks to be already done Craig

Merry Christmas all BTW!!

[I KNOW IT]

Damage looks to be already done Craig

Merry Christmas all BTW!!

Merry Xmas
You had warned of this for quite some time now.

[dik9]

As soon as i found out about Leicesters plans 4 months ago.

Wasn't me lol

I had already known the plans and knew it was to be gradually implemented, as I know that once this charge is accepted another may be put on.

[tikay]

Well, it's each to their own. Personally, I don't care how much money the Casinos make, not at all. So long as they provide me, at a reasonable price, with the criteria I set out on Page 2 of this thread, they (the Casinos) can make as much money as they like! I don't mind paying a fair & reasonable fee to get what I want. If I dont "pay my way" I'd worry that the Casino would put the space to more profitable use. As long as they earn a few bob out of poker, they'll continue to cater for us. If they don't earn out of poker, they will stop laying it on. It's that simple.

It's added money that I'm keen to see, & it's terrific to see the birth of the trend at Live Venues, whereby Online Rooms - at one time the new kid on the block remember - now sticking a few bob in the kitty for the "Live Boys".

The future for Live Tournament Poker has never looked better, & I'm delighted to be part of it, 2007 is going to be mega, with more Tourneys, variety, Fessies, better structures, clocks, & more added money than ever before.

If only I were a shade younger!

[I KNOW IT]

I for one dont mind the little extra, if the standard of service is maintained.
I feel the will be lots of changes throughout the card rooms, I just hope they get with the times on certain issues ,i.e allowing alternates and not having to be present when the tourny starts. Just be blinded off.

Also I really welcome the day they allow tipping the staff, then the turnover of staff wouldnt be so high,more pride in their work and  it would be a really sort- after industry to work in.

ps never believe casinos dont need cardrooms, just ask the rainbow. biggest bomb dropped since Hiroshima

[Acidmouse]

Its thin edge of the wedge, first this then what else? what other service can charge you 300% more from one day to another, for the same thing?

Your correct dik9 they have poker in to fill the place and generate revenue from that.

Wether I am willing to pay £3 for a £10 freezout weekly is not the point.

[dik9]

They already earn?? Poker was fine even up to the start of reg fees, It was +EV to have the cardroom to benefit the casino.

I understand that casinos should make money, it is their business, but the casino's at the mo have the monopoly and can charge whatever they want as long as they know the other casinos will eventually charge it. The new "session fee" is a joke!

If everyone was charged an entrance fee on entry to casino, then thats fair, but this a liberty that is being taken with poker players.

It is worsened by the fact high profile players seem to be ok with it, it is the lower end of the scale that will suffer.

Is this APAts stance on the situation or just a personal point of view?

[tikay]

I for one dont mind the little extra, if the standard of service is maintained.
I feel the will be lots of changes throughout the card rooms, I just hope they get with the times on certain issues ,i.e allowing alternates and not having to be present when the tourny starts. Just be blinded off.

Also I really welcome the day they allow tipping the staff, then the turnover of staff wouldnt be so high,more pride in their work and  it would be a really sort- after industry to work in.

ps never believe casinos dont need cardrooms, just ask the rainbow. biggest bomb dropped since Hiroshima

True, Craig.

Most of the "issues" you mention, are, to be fair, required by the GC, rather than the Venues. 

[tikay]

They already earn?? Poker was fine even up to the start of reg fees, It was +EV to have the cardroom to benefit the casino.

I understand that casinos should make money, it is their business, but the casino's at the mo have the monopoly and can charge whatever they want as long as they know the other casinos will eventually charge it. The new "session fee" is a joke!

If everyone was charged an entrance fee on entry to casino, then thats fair, but this a liberty that is being taken with poker players.

It is worsened by the fact high profile players seem to be ok with it, it is the lower end of the scale that will suffer.

Is this APAts stance on the situation or just a personal point of view?

These are, obviously, my personal views. APAT's views on these issues will be formulated by it's Members.

[I KNOW IT]

I for one dont mind the little extra, if the standard of service is maintained.
I feel the will be lots of changes throughout the card rooms, I just hope they get with the times on certain issues ,i.e allowing alternates and not having to be present when the tourny starts. Just be blinded off.

Also I really welcome the day they allow tipping the staff, then the turnover of staff wouldnt be so high,more pride in their work and  it would be a really sort- after industry to work in.

ps never believe casinos dont need cardrooms, just ask the rainbow. biggest bomb dropped since Hiroshima

True, Craig.

Most of the "issues" you mention, are, to be fair, required by the GC, rather than the Venues. 

Yes, sorry , I meant the GC, to come out the dark ages not casinos.

[tikay]

I for one dont mind the little extra, if the standard of service is maintained.
I feel the will be lots of changes throughout the card rooms, I just hope they get with the times on certain issues ,i.e allowing alternates and not having to be present when the tourny starts. Just be blinded off.

Also I really welcome the day they allow tipping the staff, then the turnover of staff wouldnt be so high,more pride in their work and  it would be a really sort- after industry to work in.

ps never believe casinos dont need cardrooms, just ask the rainbow. biggest bomb dropped since Hiroshima

True, Craig.

Most of the "issues" you mention, are, to be fair, required by the GC, rather than the Venues. 

Yes, sorry , I meant the GC, to come out the dark ages not casinos.

Agree with every word Craig. And yes, WE need THEM, & THEY need US. How it should be.