Liverpool v Arsenal Part 2

[Nem]

Martin Keown

[The Baron]

Martin Keown

 

[matt674]

How dare they!!!!!! 

People looking at that picture will think that he is in someway related to us!!! The cheek of it.......

[dan]

Martin Keown

 

a premiership winner

[Colchester Kev]

a thug

[dan]

I completely agree that Dudek had to be kept and Kirkland sold and Carson loaned out...


to what extent does the recent run of results begin to put pressure on Benitez?

You trying to wind me up?

This time 2 years ago we lost to Burnley in the FA Cup 3rd round and we went on to win the European Cup (for the 5th 5th 5th 5th 5th time)

Champions League and FA Cup in 2 seasons! Nuff said.

i belive that if he didnt win the CL he would probably be sacked. that win has bought him some time

[Indestructable]

Anyone betting on them winning the CL again?

[The Baron]

I completely agree that Dudek had to be kept and Kirkland sold and Carson loaned out...


to what extent does the recent run of results begin to put pressure on Benitez?

You trying to wind me up?

This time 2 years ago we lost to Burnley in the FA Cup 3rd round and we went on to win the European Cup (for the 5th 5th 5th 5th 5th time)

Champions League and FA Cup in 2 seasons! Nuff said.

i belive that if he didnt win the CL he would probably be sacked. that win has bought him some time

I disagree.

Weve gone from a team struggling to make the top 4 every year to a side that will.

We're capable of winning cup competitions and we've shown streaks of consistency that if harnessed correctly would have us competing more closely at the top with a good start to the season.

Champions League or not Benitez has us going in the right direction.

I've heard a lot about Arsenal's "transitional period" in this thread, it is wrong to think Liverpool are any further along than you guys. We were a right state after Houllier left with our team and our finances.

Don't forget this "under pressure" manager finished way above Arsenal last season and is ahead of them again already this season, not to mention the superior trophy count over the last two years - which is the ultimate measure of success.

I doubt you'd consider Wenger to be under pressure too would you?

[Triple X]

I havent commented on Liverpool in this thread but there can be no argument that Liverpool are a top 4 side and arguably slighty ahead of Arsenal at the moment.

But, when i say Arsenal are in transition, they are.  An old squad is slowly being replaced by young players.  No more Pires, Bergkamp, Campbell, Vieira, Keown, Parlour etc.  Week in week out now Arsenal play teenagers in the premiership.  I have not seen that in over 15 years when the likes of Adams, Merse and Rocky got a chance.  Now Theo, Djorou, Fabregas (all teenagers) are involved almost every week and players like Hoyte, Clichy, Eboue, Senderos, Adebayor, Diaby, ae much older.

Arsenal have had to do this as the squad was getting old and finances were tight coz of the new stadium.  The stadium is now built, the debt has been refinanced into a much more manageable way and we have a squad for the future.

Being completely objective i am not sure if Liverpool are going in the same way and lets not forget you potentially have the difficulty of a new stadium purchase to come (tho i am not sure how much will be contributed by council and grants).  I look at the squad and im not sure the manager knows what direction he wants to go.  Too much money spent on average players like Bellamy, Pennant, Gonzales Aurelio, Zenden etc.  Surely this is not what you want.  Plus I look at the younger players and there isnt much shining through - Warnock seems to have been around for ages.  Either he is going to make it or isnt but for me he just looks like another one of those Stephen Wrights (?) you had that was ok but you knew would never make it and ended up at Sunderland (?).

This is my point - Chelsea for the forseeable future will have the money to do whatever they want.  Man Utd have a mix of money, youngsters plus world class players at the moment and Arsenal have 2-3 world class players with a young crop to come in.  Liverpool have 1 world class player, some good players but not much coming through.

With Liverpool i see neither transition or a finished product and i think that is most Liverpool fans concern (I spent a lot of time yesterday on the Livrpool forums reading their thoughts) and whilst a lot of it would have been knee-jerk reaction there is still a lot of unhappiness.

[The Baron]

Good post Triple X but the players you mention such as Zenden, Aurelio, Gonzales, Bellamy etc are budget buys. Not exactly what we're after but none of them are big money losses.

No they aren't the players we'd ideally like to buy. We looked at Diaby and Walcott but as Benitez himself said we couldn't compete with the money being paid for them. To get us where he has considering our state after Houllier I think he's done very well. We also looked at Cristiano Ronaldo, same story there.

It's not that we don't want the best youth players it's that we cant afford them.

Benitez is a huge fan of investing in youth. If this DIC takeover happens I would bet every great young player is contested by Benitez.

Now look at these players:

Zenden - free, Aurelio - free, Gonzales - 4m, Bellamy - 6m (because of a clause in his contract) - all of these can be sold for a profit. When you have financial worries at your club these are good signings.

That's 4 players (Boro's best player 2 years aho, B'Burn's best player last year, a player Benitez knows well from Valencia who helped him win trophies, and a decent young winger with lightning pace) for £10m.

I'm not sure Liverpool fans who are getting down about it all are being totally realistic to be honest. We ARE a club in transition.

We've reached the point now where Houllier's rubbish has all gone and we'll only be buying players better than the ones we already have. Now it could get interesting for us in the transfer market. Especially if the takeover happens.

[Triple X]

i hope u r right as i personally believe the title race has to be a 4 horse race so its down to Liverpool and Arsenal to get their act together.

Benitez is a good manager with a track record but his problem is he doesnt know what his best 11 is and that is something that Fergie and Wenger both know.  As a result the inconsistency comes down to his decisions.

That being said most people would say that Arsene Wenger is the 2nd most successful manager of the last 20 years - and after winning the double in his first full season in 98 he won nothing until the next double 4 years later.  Albeit we came 2nd every year, lost an FA Cup Final to a last minute winner (AND A BLATANT HANDBALL BY HENCHOZ ON THE LINE!!) and a European final.  So it doesnt all come at once...



 

[The Baron]

Benitez is a good manager with a track record but his problem is he doesnt know what his best 11 is and that is something that Fergie and Wenger both know.  As a result the inconsistency comes down to his decisions.

He rotated when he won two league titles in Spain too. I think it's just his style.

As for Henchoz.... "Errrr welll....... i dunno..... it hit the powst!" LOL!

[The Baron]

Benitez today:

Rafa Benitez has called on the Anfield board to back him with more money and to move quicker in the transfer market.

The Liverpool boss has taken the unusual move to condemn his club's own actions in the transfer market as he feels The Reds are missing out on some top talent.

Benitez was speaking after seeing Arsenal's second string tear his own reserves apart on Tuesday as they cruised to a 6-3 victory.

"If Arsenal can play nine reserves and score six at Anfield, people should be asking why," said Benitez.

"It's not because of one game, it's because of many reasons.

"There is a lesson for the whole of our club. That lesson is that if you want to compete at the top level you must be able to spend a lot of money - not only on your first team but on the young players and the reserves.

"My scouting department has done an excellent job but sometimes we go too slowly as a club to make signings we need.

"We need to work quickly. And when we do, there is not a lot of money. Arsenal spent £4million on Abou Diaby, £4million on Denilson, £8million on Theo Walcott and Julio Baptista is a £22million player.

"We had seven players with first-team experience and still we could not win."

Benitez did confirm the club were in the process of tying up deals for Sampdoria's Danielle Padelli and James McCarthy of Hamilton.

"We are signing a young Italian goalkeeper on loan with an option for longer," said Benitez.

"We have also been working for many weeks to sign James McCarthy, a young Scot [from Hamilton Academicals].

"These are deals we are doing because we want to build for the future. But without spending money it is difficult.

"Arsenal have two or three players, for example, who we were monitoring but couldn't sign because we didn't have enough money."

Courtesy of SkySports.

[Triple X]

Baron - you and Benitez make it sound like Arsenal are so rich and Liverpool are so poor.  I thought it was the other way around?!?

Pennant - Kuyt - Bellamy - Aggar - Crouch.  Thats £30 mill between that lot.  All of them are not great players and money could have been better spent elsewhere.  Benyitez himself admits he overspent on Pennant but that he was forced into it as a panic buy to get width in the team.  We spent the same money on Rosicky, a PROVEN international who has a great scoring record from midfield internationally.

Benitez mentions Denilson, Walcott and Diaby.  Forget Baptista, we havent paid a penny for him!!  All of these were able to be made because of Wenger's astute transfer policy - not because he has a huge chequebook.  His net spend will be one of the lowest in the premiership, WAY lower than Liverpool.

But 9 times out of 10, when he spends he gets it right and can even still sell on for more.  Lets not forget in August we got £2mill for Cygan, and even got almost £2 mill for Pennant (thank you for that!!).  Plus the year before we got £13 for Vieira.  The net spend is hardly in the positive.

I am now going to find out how much NET we have spent under Wenger!!  Back Later!

[Karabiner]

If memory serves, Diaby only cost about £2M/£3M hardly "breaking the bank".