Ivey the hustler?

[kano]

Just found this on 2+2. Pretty interesting read, could be wild exaggeration but who knows?

"Heard the following the other day from a friend of Ram Vaswani, who plays golf regularly with Phil Ivey in Vegas:

Marc Goodwin, a very self-regarding semi-successful tournament player (and ex double-glazing salesman) plays off scratch (zero handicap) and has been very boastful of his friendship with Ivey and how he has made lumps of money playing golf with him over the last year or so.

He, Ram Vaswani and Eric Sagstrom (Eric123) arranged to play a round with Ivey in Australia. Vaswani plays off around 5 I believe and Sagstrom is a decent player. Whilst arranging the strokes Ivey was to be given and the bets to be wagered Ivey was asked how much he had been playing in the few months since they had last been able to play together. He claimed he hadn't been able to play much at all due to all the poker he was playing and was accordingly given a generous advantage and off they went.

After 7 holes Goodwin was down $450,000 and suddenly erupted in fury at Ivey, claiming he had cheated them and stormed off the course. Sagstrom was similiary infuriated but carried on for another 2 holes before getting to the same amount down and he too left the course with a lot of animosity. Vaswani(one of the more fearless gamblers in the world and an honourable chap) finished off the 18 holes and ended up owing $900,000. Apparently he hasn't got that kind of money and so negotiated some sort of settlement with Ivey with the intention of paying.

The other two have no intention of playing and there is now bad blood between them.

Phil had omitted to tell them that he had spent the last few months practising around 3 hours a day and getting the best coaching.

Is this one of the great hustles? Goodness knows what the total could have been if all three had continued to play all 18 holes (all tilted up)

Should they pay up? "

[Jim-D]

Should they pay up? "[/i]

Damn right they should.

[TightEnd]

Just found this on 2+2. Pretty interesting read, could be wild exaggeration but who knows?

"Heard the following the other day from a friend of Ram Vaswani, who plays golf regularly with Phil Ivey in Vegas:

Marc Goodwin, a very self-regarding semi-successful tournament player

I would like to be as semi-successful.

[ifm]

I dunno playing off a false handicap is akin to palming aces, cheating!!!!

[ACE2M]

I dunno playing off a false handicap is akin to palming aces, cheating!!!!

very much agree.

[byronkincaid]

Well, Vince Van Patten does call him "The Tiger Woods of Poker" 

[ariston]

ok few miss truths there.

sangstrom flew to san diego to play ivey and arranged handicap before he flew out. Ivey shot 39 on the front 9 (3 months ago you could've had 100-1 on him breaking 50) and Sangrstrom paid up and walked off the course.

In australia the handicap issue was brought up as they hadn't played him for a few months and the bar was set by someone they had both played recently- erik lingren. Phil was asked directly how many shots eric gave him and he replied 10 so they used that as the benchmark. Ivey then spanked both Ram and Marc and when they got back to the hotel Eric said Ivey gets no shots off him now as he has had the best coaching money can buy for the past few months and has improved his game by maybe 22 shots a round. Lying about your handicap in golf is cheating not hussling and both Marc and Ram are not giving him a penny- if ivey had been truthful he would have still taken them for a couple of hundred grand but he got greedy and has sullied his name. Several huge names in oz were discusted by his behaviour and he flew home early. Some of the biggest names in poker have said they wouldn't give him a cent and Ivey has certainly come off not looking very good in this affair. Maybe marc will come on to confirm all this.

[Sark79]

Is golf a big game amongst poker players now?  Every time I read an interview with a poker player ( ok, mainly Negreanu ) they mention golf. 

[Dewi_cool]

ok few miss truths there.

sangstrom flew to san diego to play ivey and arranged handicap before he flew out. Ivey shot 39 on the front 9 (3 months ago you could've had 100-1 on him breaking 50) and Sangrstrom paid up and walked off the course.

In australia the handicap issue was brought up as they hadn't played him for a few months and the bar was set by someone they had both played recently- erik lingren. Phil was asked directly how many shots eric gave him and he replied 10 so they used that as the benchmark. Ivey then spanked both Ram and Marc and when they got back to the hotel Eric said Ivey gets no shots off him now as he has had the best coaching money can buy for the past few months and has improved his game by maybe 22 shots a round. Lying about your handicap in golf is cheating not hussling and both Marc and Ram are not giving him a penny- if ivey had been truthful he would have still taken them for a couple of hundred grand but he got greedy and has sullied his name. Several huge names in oz were discusted by his behaviour and he flew home early. Some of the biggest names in poker have said they wouldn't give him a cent and Ivey has certainly come off not looking very good in this affair. Maybe marc will come on to confirm all this.

two sides to a story, now there's a turn up!!  N1 russ

[Karabiner]

I dunno playing off a false handicap is akin to palming aces, cheating!!!!

I would doubt that Ivey has an "official" handicap, these guys arrange their own handicaps rather like we used to playing snooker, where it was considered good business to make a game where you had the edge.

Were MrCool and Ram cheating when they weren't giving Ivey enough shots and winning his money ?

[redsimon]

Just found this on 2+2. Pretty interesting read, could be wild exaggeration but who knows?

"Heard the following the other day from a friend of Ram Vaswani, who plays golf regularly with Phil Ivey in Vegas:

Marc Goodwin, a very self-regarding semi-successful tournament player

I would like to be as semi-successful.

Didnt he buy in to $182Ks of tourneys in 2006 and cash for $180K?

[I KNOW IT]

ok few miss truths there.

sangstrom flew to san diego to play ivey and arranged handicap before he flew out. Ivey shot 39 on the front 9 (3 months ago you could've had 100-1 on him breaking 50) and Sangrstrom paid up and walked off the course.

In australia the handicap issue was brought up as they hadn't played him for a few months and the bar was set by someone they had both played recently- erik lingren. Phil was asked directly how many shots eric gave him and he replied 10 so they used that as the benchmark. Ivey then spanked both Ram and Marc and when they got back to the hotel Eric said Ivey gets no shots off him now as he has had the best coaching money can buy for the past few months and has improved his game by maybe 22 shots a round. Lying about your handicap in golf is cheating not hussling and both Marc and Ram are not giving him a penny- if ivey had been truthful he would have still taken them for a couple of hundred grand but he got greedy and has sullied his name. Several huge names in oz were discusted by his behaviour and he flew home early. Some of the biggest names in poker have said they wouldn't give him a cent and Ivey has certainly come off not looking very good in this affair. Maybe marc will come on to confirm all this.

If a guy starts playing golf, in the 1st month or so, its fair to say he is going to shoot in the 100's per 18 holes. Ivey has been playing for quite a while,although I believe poorly, so for him to cut his handicap by 22 shots is near impossible within 3 months. Im not saying he hasnt lied about his handicap, but no way has he reduced it by 22 shots in 3 months as he wasnt a total beginner at the game. Hes been playing  for at least a year.
There is also the slight possibilty he had the round of his life.
No doubt Marc will voice his opinions on the matter.   

[ifm]

I dunno playing off a false handicap is akin to palming aces, cheating!!!!

I would doubt that Ivey has an "official" handicap, these guys arrange their own handicaps rather like we used to playing snooker, where it was considered good business to make a game where you had the edge.

Were MrCool and Ram cheating when they weren't giving Ivey enough shots and winning his money ?

If you deliberately give a false handicap knowing you will beat it easily then it's cheating. It doesn't matter if it's official or not.
As for them cheating him, then no because he is agreeing to the amount of shots he is given, so he would be cheating himself in effect.

[Sark79]

This was off another site where I read an interview with Ivey

What’s the craziest bet you’ve ever made?

I bet someone that I would be able to beat him at golf in 10 years. He shoots in the low 80s, so that’s a pretty crazy bet if you’ve ever seen my golf. I’m just going to practice in my downtime, and hopefully get better and be able to beat him. I have some good golfers who are trying to help me out once in a while.

How much is the bet for?

(Guilty laugh) Let’s just say it has some zeros in it.

[Karabiner]

I dunno playing off a false handicap is akin to palming aces, cheating!!!!

I would doubt that Ivey has an "official" handicap