What makes a club big?

[UpTheMariners]

Benitez recently called Everton "a small club". But what makes a club big?

IMO it's trophies/history, fan base, disposal income, in that order.

scoring 6 goals at the weekend 

WERE MASSIVE!!!!!

[The Dundonian]

Interesting debate!
Surely the key to this is the support, realised and potential, that makes a big club.
Nottingham forest had a very succesful run but they are not a big club.
Whereas Leeds and Newcastle are huge clubs who have had relatively little success.

Despite disliking them personally Man United have to be the biggest club in the world. Anywhere I go in the world there are kids running around with Man U tops, likewise to a lesser degree Liverpool. In every department other than European honours they are bigger and better than both Barcelona and Real, Barcelona I think being the bigger of the two.

Chelsea are not even a big club in London compared to Arsenal and Spurs and are on a par with West Ham.

Celtic are the second biggest supported club in Britian (through the turnstiles) which surely makes them a huge club, however putting this in perspective of actual turnover, the bottom club in the Premiership will make more money from television rights than the whole of the SPL combined. This makes judgement by turnover a very difficult tool to use.

Lastly there are only really 4 clubs in the UK that have huge fan bases outside of there local areas and in fact have a thriving international support, those are Celtic, Man U , Liverpool and perhaps to a lesser degree Rangers. Clubs like Benfica and Porto for all their success do not have this.

I have enjoyed this thread, a difficult to quantify but interesting thread.

PS: Just for Nemisis........ Newcastle are a far bigger club the Spurs!

[The Baron]

Interesting debate!
Surely the key to this is the support, realised and potential, that makes a big club.
Nottingham forest had a very succesful run but they are not a big club.
Whereas Leeds and Newcastle are huge clubs who have had relatively little success.

Despite disliking them personally Man United have to be the biggest club in the world. Anywhere I go in the world there are kids running around with Man U tops, likewise to a lesser degree Liverpool. In every department other than European honours they are bigger and better than both Barcelona and Real, Barcelona I think being the bigger of the two.

Chelsea are not even a big club in London compared to Arsenal and Spurs and are on a par with West Ham.

Celtic are the second biggest supported club in Britian (through the turnstiles) which surely makes them a huge club, however putting this in perspective of actual turnover, the bottom club in the Premiership will make more money from television rights than the whole of the SPL combined. This makes judgement by turnover a very difficult tool to use.

Lastly there are only really 4 clubs in the UK that have huge fan bases outside of there local areas and in fact have a thriving international support, those are Celtic, Man U , Liverpool and perhaps to a lesser degree Rangers. Clubs like Benfica and Porto for all their success do not have this.

I have enjoyed this thread, a difficult to quantify but interesting thread.

PS: Just for Nemisis........ Newcastle are a far bigger club the Spurs!

Good post.

I think I'm leaning towards the size of the following worldwide as well. (Although this is immensely hard to measure)

However I'd argue that Barcelona and Real are at least as well supported as Man U. I dont believe everything I read in the English press about them being the biggest in the world necessarily (although I'm sure they're up there).

Barca have a huge following in Latin America as well as large hispanic sections of North America. Many South American stars have come to Europe to these clubs and been followed for years back home.

It's very tough to really know who is big in Japan, China or Korea and what the level of "support" is. If I'm an everyday guy from Tokyo, buying a Beckham shirt because he's a "face" doesn't make me a Man U/Real Madrid/LA Galaxy fan IMO.

Knowing of a team (knowing their name) is not enough IMO.

[The Dundonian]

Agree with nearly all your thoughts there Baron, Barcelona are huge I agree,everywhere I go, and I do go to some very strange places you see Barca paraphenalia, and thats the great thing about this thread, it's such a hard question to answer. But I do think, if you look at the stats, Man U's average crowd will be above both the Spanish giants. I  believe turnover for the last 3 years has seen them at the top of this particular league also, although I may be wrong and await correction from the Sherrif!

A big plus point for Celtic just now is Nakamura, which has raised the clubs profile to a different level in the Far East. Whether this is just a fad while the player is there (like the Beckhamites that you talked of) or leaves a lasting impression is yet to be seen. I am fortunate enough to be spending a couple of days in Seoul on my way back next week and will keep a particular eye out for what's in and what's not in Korea.

[Acidmouse]

Bah even Leeds won the league more recently than Liverpool!

[kinboshi]

Bah even Leeds won the league more recently than Liverpool!

So have Blackburn.

[Nem]

Bah even Leeds won the league more recently than Liverpool!

So have Blackburn.

So have Chelsea

[kinboshi]

Bah even Leeds won the league more recently than Liverpool!

So have Blackburn.

So have Chelsea

So have Spurs

[Nem]

Bah even Leeds won the league more recently than Liverpool!

So have Blackburn.

So have Chelsea

So have Spurs

At least we won the Peace Cup

[thetank]

Liverpool are breaking into the US. 

[The Baron]

Agree with nearly all your thoughts there Baron, Barcelona are huge I agree,everywhere I go, and I do go to some very strange places you see Barca paraphenalia, and thats the great thing about this thread, it's such a hard question to answer. But I do think, if you look at the stats, Man U's average crowd will be above both the Spanish giants. I  believe turnover for the last 3 years has seen them at the top of this particular league also, although I may be wrong and await correction from the Sherrif!

I'm not sure about average crowds as the Nou Camp and Bernabeau are both hyouge!

English clubs are held back slightly by the all seater grounds and the fact that we have 4 leagues though. Several teams in Germany regulary get 50,000 - 60,000 turn up!

In terms of turnover Man U were always top until a couple of years ago. I think Real have pipped them the last 2 seasons.

[Jim-D]

Bernabeau and camp nou are huge grounds but probably only have a sell out 7/8 times per season,  Old Trafford is a near sell out EVERY game

[Acidmouse]

I consider Celtic one of Europe's big clubs pity there in the weakest league known to mankind.

[The Baron]

Bernabeau and camp nou are huge grounds but probably only have a sell out 7/8 times per season

Really?

I would have thought, much like here, when clubs are winning every trohpy in sight they are selling out. Although I've seen no evidence either way tbh.

[Sheriff Fatman]

Season to date figures:

Club                                  Average            % of Capacity
Barcelona                            85,452                   87.1
Man Utd                              75,786                   99.4
Real Madrid                          71,542                   95.3
Borussia Dortmund                70,461                   84.8
Bayern Munich                      68,400                   99.0
Celtic                                  57,287                    94.1