Tournament move in a cash game?

[Swordpoker]

I'm a tournament player but am trying to become a successful cash player. Here's an interesting hand I was involved in. The kind of move I made here, and the calls I made, can be good decisions (I think) in certain tourney situations but I'm wondering whether this was a silly thing to do at a cash table.

Basically, the other guys were betting weak and I decided to represent a made flush but actually had an open ended straight draw.

Was my move a reasonable one?
Was I daft to call the reraise?
Having called the reraise, was I daft to call the river bet when I hit my straight?


 

PokerStars Game #8515664941:  Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2007/02/19 - 05:43:59 (ET)
Table 'Sheratan' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: killa187 ($126.55 in chips)
Seat 2: Larermo ($50.15 in chips)
Seat 3: Homer079 ($7 in chips)
Seat 4: genti18 ($109.10 in chips)
Seat 5: Ervel ($84.65 in chips)
Seat 6: lifedonk ($231.65 in chips)
Seat 7: amazinmets73 ($127.55 in chips)
Seat 8: getsum444 ($65.25 in chips)
Seat 9: swordpoker ($158.20 in chips)
Homer079: posts small blind $0.50
genti18: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to swordpoker [ ]
Ervel: folds
lifedonk: folds
amazinmets73: folds
getsum444: calls $1
swordpoker: calls $1
killa187: folds
Larermo: folds
Homer079: raises $2 to $3
genti18: raises $2 to $5
getsum444: calls $4
swordpoker: calls $4
Homer079: raises $2 to $7 and is all-in
genti18: calls $2
getsum444: calls $2
swordpoker: calls $2
*** FLOP *** [ ]
genti18: bets $5
getsum444: calls $5
swordpoker: calls $5
*** TURN *** [ ] []
genti18: bets $5
getsum444: calls $5
swordpoker: raises $25 to $30
genti18: raises $25 to $55
getsum444: folds
swordpoker: calls $25
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
genti18: bets $37
swordpoker: calls $37
*** SHOW DOWN ***
genti18: shows [ ] (a flush, Queen high)
swordpoker: mucks hand
genti18 collected $202.40 from side pot
Homer079: mucks hand
genti18 collected $26.60 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $232 Main pot $26.60. Side pot $202.40. | Rake $3
Board [ ]
Seat 1: killa187 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Larermo (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Homer079 (small blind) mucked [ ]
Seat 4: genti18 (big blind) showed [ ] and won ($229) with a flush, Queen high
Seat 5: Ervel folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: lifedonk folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: amazinmets73 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: getsum444 folded on the Turn
Seat 9: swordpoker mucked [ ]

[matt674]

Basically, the other guys were betting weak and I decided to represent a made flush but actually had an open ended straight draw.

When the flop comes down there is a player who is all in - therefore bluffing a dry pot is pointless, so when one player bets and this is called before you have still to speak you have to ask yourself "are they both bluffing?" - chances are they are not.

If i hadn't folded after the flop then i'm definately done with the hand on the turn, calling to hit a draw which could be could be drawing dead isn't for me in tournaments.

Whether its different in cash games i dont know 

[Swordpoker]

Basically, the other guys were betting weak and I decided to represent a made flush but actually had an open ended straight draw.

When the flop comes down there is a player who is all in - therefore bluffing a dry pot is pointless, so when one player bets and this is called before you have still to speak you have to ask yourself "are they both bluffing?" - chances are they are not.

If i hadn't folded after the flop then i'm definately done with the hand on the turn, calling to hit a draw which could be could be drawing dead isn't for me in tournaments.

Whether its different in cash games i dont know 

Thanks Matt. Yes, I think you are right.

I will bluff a dry pot sometimes in tourneys. If I have a hand which is likely to beat the all-in guy but unlikely to stand up with someone else in the pot I might bluff to get rid of the other guy. Gets the chat box lively afterwards Usually everyone gets upset 'coz I'm 'supposed' to check it down to try to get the all-inner knocked out. But I think that winning more chips is more important.

[matt674]

I will bluff a dry pot sometimes in tourneys. If I have a hand which is likely to beat the all-in guy but unlikely to stand up with someone else in the pot I might bluff to get rid of the other guy. Gets the chat box lively afterwards Usually everyone gets upset 'coz I'm 'supposed' to check it down to try to get the all-inner knocked out. But I think that winning more chips is more important.

Have done it many times myself, especially at the business end of tournaments when there are lots of shortstacks who have lost the will to live and are going all in with any two.

On this occasion if this were to happen in a tourney with the action taking place before me i'd have to think that one of them had my hand beat - and then there is still no guarantee that i'd be winning the main pot against the first all in player.

But then who knows - What i do the majority of the time and what i do when the computer is telling me "its your turn to act" aren't always the same!!

[Smart Money]

Any decent cash player loves to play pairs when faced with a pre-flop raise in the hope of hitting a set. One minor pre-flop comment, when there has been a raise and a re-raise before you, then it's not an automatic call with any pair- even though it's still just a 5BB call. You have to be wary of the original raiser putting in another raise and thereby pricing you out. In this example it's almost certain that he's going to go all-in (it's only $2 more) and I've have expected the re-raiser, genti, to have re-raised again to push everyone else out. (As it turns out, he was re-raising with junk on this occassion. Suicidal play long-term on a full-handed cash table.)

You have to fold on this flop every single time. You have 2 outs.

If you're in any doubt about "making a move" at the cash table, then don't do it- especially against unknown or [poor] unpredictable opponents (which is clearly what genti is- his pre-flop and turn play are terrible) and not when there is a player all-in. If I found myself in that position, then I'd possibly call thinking I had 6 outs- but would feel more comfortable folding. Very few players are going to re-raise here without a flush. If you had a set then you have to call and hope to hit your FH. However, you have nothing and you have to fold here.

You rivered your straight, but that's never going to be a good thing! You're basically only beating a bluff. I'd fold.

[M3boy]

Moves at those levels generally dont work - weather its because its ONLY $25 to call, or weather its because moves are beyond most people at this level , I dont know

I dont mind the call preflop, infact I would of tried to isolate the short stack by re re raising.

Once the flop comes, and betting infornt of me I am done with this hand.

[bobby1]

I think I would call the flop bet and I understand your raise on the turn as it does look strong but once you are raised there you have to pass, what hand can the guy be re raising you with there that you can beat or even hit and beat?

When you have called the turn raise and he bets again on the river you should prob think you are beat, but your play on the turn has created a big pot and for 37 bucks you should pass but are getting over 5/1. It is a pass for me there too.

Im certain that your call of his re raise is a poor play in both cash and tournies tho mate.

[Swordpoker]

Thanks guys. All very helpful comments.