Possible Poker League Collusion?

[I, Zimbra]

Hi all,

Would like some honest and serious opinions on this scenario, it's a bit complex, so please bear with me

There's a league being run by an online poker room, it takes place over an entire month at a time, usually twelve or thirteen events total. Each event is extremely cheap by comparison with the added prizes on offer, enough so that the points earned in league placings are almost certainly more valuable than the actual 'money' places in the tourney. In particular, the winner of said league gets a seat a live game worth thousands.

There are maybe fifty or so regular players in the league, over half of whom subscribe to one particular online forum. (Most of them have the initials of said forum in their screen names). I am one of the few who is not a regular contributor to this forum, and am leading the league up to the second-to-last game.

The format of the league is a bit crapshooty; top 20 in each event get points, but the points are heavily skewed towards winning the tournaments - and only your best five scores count. I have five scores counting, as do most players - but there is one player who has won two tournaments, but has only used three of his five scores; this makes him dangerous in the league because he can catch up to me with one or two well placed finishes in the last couple of games.

This dangerous contender is a member of said forum.

In the second to last game, we're down to two tables, fifteen or so players remaining and the other main contender is still in (and thus will earn his fourth score), and is obviously blinding himself away - by obviously, I mean that he is making no effort to hide it. We get down to fifteen players, and I am watching him from the other table. He is going slow on every hand, hoping that someone else will go out before him and he'll get a few more points for laddering up the league table. Remember, that we're nowhere near the money yet, so there's no hand-for-hand or anything like that.

He has most of his chips committed in the big blind (he has just 60 back with huge blinds, so will be all-in in the small blind if he folds), and now uses his time bank.

To their credit, some of the other players at his table are making the usual "zzzz" and "get on with it" type remarks, at which point he apologises, remarking that league points are precious in his situation.

This is where it gets interesting: once he uses his time bank up, a pal of his - from the same forum - activates HIS time bank, on the same hand!

Given that the pal was clearly using his time bank to help a friend potentially get more points by laddering higher up this league, (I mentioned earlier that the added value is worth far more than any moneys in the tourney prize pool), my question is: does this count as collusion, and should I contact the online site about it?

[Longy]

Yes its collusion, yes should contact the site. Will anything be done i doubt it, unless this is stars. Best of luck.

[nirvana]

I'm in Genoa.. closing a big deal, sans collusion... that new tribeca migration with loadsa burly peeps sittin round the table has made me wanna give up online poker

[suzanne]

Bit of a tricky one IMO.

If you were to report the guy then he could say he went for a pee/someone at the door/baby crying. There is no way of proving your suspisions and I dont see that the site can do anything about it really.

I have to admit I have been guilty of doing this in the past when nearing the bubble and did not even consider it to be collusion. It has bit me back in the bum though when bubble boy has made the $$ then went on to knock me out :-)

GL with the League...cream will always rise to the top.

[M3boy]

You will not get anything done by complaining here.

Some people will do anything.

Remember, cream rises

[I, Zimbra]

Thanks everyone for your input.

Suz - btw - this was nowhere near the bubble, and so the second guy who used his time bank had no real self-interest in doing so.

I didn't complain, as it happens, and the guy who was trying to ladder still went out 14th, so nothing was achieved.

I was kinda pissed about the whole thing though..

[thetank]

I've read this thread, and it's a really interesting question.

Don't know what side of the line it falls on.

[AndrewT]

I've read this thread, and it's a really interesting question.

Don't know what side of the line it falls on.

It falls on the side of 'may well be underhand but no way of proving it is so you have to let it go'.

[redsimon]

Considering what they could get up to if they wanted (MSN, mobile phone calls to reveal hole cards, chip dumping etc) time bank abuse seems relatively minor and of course absolutely impossible to prove.

[thetank]

It's like, if someone drops an f bomb at WSOP, and his buddy at same table stalls, so he doesn't miss his big blind.

Or what you'll see more frequently, stalling coz your buddy is having a piss/smoke.

[dealerFROMhell]

Collusion in poker is absolutely rampant. A friend of mine plays in Derby (Stanleys). Players openly discuss chopping whatever they win at the final table as if it was the done thing. If the game wasn't stock full of fish, then he wouldn't bother playing there.

I see it day in day out in all sorts of tournament/cash games. Up and down the country. It's a part of poker that's always going to be there, and certainly in online play, there's almost nothing you can do about it.

[tikay]

It's like, if someone drops an f bomb at WSOP, and his buddy at same table stalls, so he doesn't miss his big blind.

Or what you'll see more frequently, stalling coz your buddy is having a piss/smoke.

I got a 15 minute Penalty in a WSOP Event for an alleged, err....f-bomb, & the whole table dwelt up for 3 or 4 minutes each, so I only missed one hand. I think they were upset that they were missing the value.....

[matt674]

No, the table had been playing at that speed for the whole hour before your penalty because they were so rivetted by your story of the 11.58 from Paddington to St. Ives!!

[I, Zimbra]

It's like, if someone drops an f bomb at WSOP, and his buddy at same table stalls, so he doesn't miss his big blind.

Or what you'll see more frequently, stalling coz your buddy is having a piss/smoke.

Point taken, but in those cases, is there another party in the comp who is actually - in the 'targeted' sense - harmed by the action?

In my case, the two of them were actively seeking an edge against me (as league leader) and the other non-forumites above him in the league, by trying to get the player from their forum extra league points.

I forgot to mention, this site's time bank is not activated accidentally, the button must be pushed - so it cannot be a case where the player in question was away from his screen and the time bank kicked in automatically, or anything.

It falls on the side of 'may well be underhand but no way of proving it is so you have to let it go'.

Point taken here, too - perhaps that's why instinctively I didn't pursue the matter through official channels; I did think it interesting enough a scenario though to ask what you all thought.

[mex]

This cannot happen near the bubble on most sites because of hand to hand.

I think this is more bending the rules thann collusion, i would expect a full explaination on the matter
Try joining the forum and PM'ing the head mod or what ever and make him aware that a few members are potentially dragging the forum name through the mud.