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temp0r
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« on: March 02, 2007, 10:03:28 PM »

PokerStars Game #8705253800: Tournament #43984254, $50+$5 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2007/03/02 - 17:02:31 (ET)
Table '43984254 17' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: popp6161 (1470 in chips)
Seat 2: natdog100 (1460 in chips)
Seat 3: FGators26 (1420 in chips)
Seat 4: temp0r2k (1730 in chips)
Seat 5: steiden (1480 in chips)
Seat 6: jasonkobe (1500 in chips)
Seat 7: weavel (1440 in chips)
Seat 8: mortonator99 (1500 in chips)
Seat 9: jlwucla (1480 in chips)
steiden: posts small blind 10
jasonkobe: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to temp0r2k [ As]
weavel: folds
mortonator99: folds
jlwucla: folds
popp6161: calls 20
natdog100: folds
FGators26: folds
temp0r2k: raises 60 to 80
steiden: folds
jasonkobe: folds
popp6161: calls 60
*** FLOP *** [Two Clubs ]
popp6161: checks
temp0r2k: checks
*** TURN *** [Two Clubs ] []
popp6161: checks
temp0r2k: bets 100
popp6161: calls 100
*** RIVER *** [Two Clubs ] [two spades]
popp6161: bets 1290 and is all-in

 
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stewart
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« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2007, 10:31:36 PM »

instant pass, you played the hand badly on the flop you have to pass now, you only generated action when you could be behind, the bet pre-flop is a little week, the check on the flop is awful with the flush draw there and u have no way of knowing where u are with the 100 bet on the turn, you could of let an A2 in for a full, unlikely he has that, you could have let JQ have a free card for a 10 for a strait, if that comes i doubt u are passing, i have a feeling you called though and he had KQ or something stupid but it should be a instant pass, i would of pref to raise pre-flop to 150, bet out on the flop 320 and see where i am, if he set me in on the flop i call, on the turn i check he could easy call me on the flop with a 9 in his hand and hope to get a free card to outdraw him, or get a cheap check-call on the river,
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temp0r
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« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2007, 11:30:44 PM »

you raise to 7.5 the BB preflop? uuuh. right. well i wanted action from this guy. this was only the 4th hand of the tournament and he'd raised preflop 3 times already. showed down once after a little action for QJ that lost. i figured he would pop a turn bet at me if i checked.
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stewart
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« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2007, 11:33:48 PM »

do u want a turn bet on that flop ? that early on play the hand on merit its to early to say what your opp's are doing ,

also there is the SB 10,  BB 20, the flat call 20, your call 20, makeing the pot 70 raiseing 130 here isnt a bad play,
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« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2007, 12:47:39 PM »

I cann't see why you would want to even continplate calling this hand. With two pairs on the board there could easily be a FH, there also three cards to a flush, ok he might be bluffing, the 1,200 all-in into roughly a 400 pot seems a bit steep, I cann't see this being a full-on bluff, I don't think he has the lock hand but I'd be amased if he has one worse than yours. If he has, then good on him, sit-back and wait for him to deliver all his chip on another hand when you are in a stronger.

I agree with stewart, why check the flop and make it free for him to hit a hand which could be stronger than yours? I would have made a standard continuation size bet (half to 3/4 the pot), he might miss this but others on the table might not, making it easier to bluff later on. When the othe nine hits I would have been a bit warry, I might even give up the hand at this point to a bet, although I could well have bet / raised (if the bet looked week). The problem here is of course is you have built a nice sized pot which makes it hard to fold to a river bet regardless of what comes down (unless it a K where you definatly cann't fold).
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AlexMartin
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« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2007, 11:02:30 AM »

Erm, i call.
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Muahahahaha
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« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2007, 11:27:39 AM »

I fold

It's too early to get fancy.  I'd have stuck in a continuation bet post flop.  Very unimaginative, & he's most likey to  fold, but I don't want to be greedy here.  If I slow play him & he hits, I'll lose a stupid amount of chips if I'm not careful.  I'm  a very dull player, but I'm coming to the conclusion that the way to succeed at this game is to play 'proper' poker 80 - 90 % of the time & mess about a bit when you can afford to, or when you have to.

Calling here is gambling when you have absolutely no need to.  To beat you he needs any two spades, any 9, any 2, & you've implied that you already thnk the could play trash out of the blinds.He could easily have A2 or Q9, etc etc  It's not impossible for him to have KK. 

No, to call this early is irresponsible
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boldie
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« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2007, 12:11:06 PM »

it's a call for me. no point losing the tourney on a hand like this (true) the FD and FH easily beat you (though I'm more likely to think he's got the FD then anything else) but I think he wouldn't have bet it the way he did if he had any of those 2. I'd be more inclined to take him for an ace kicked with the 2 pair on the board.

I agree with what's been said above, the check on the flop is just begging for trouble. Make people pay to hit don't give them any free cards unless you hold the absolute nuts. The raise pre-flop is fine but people don't respect a raise to 80 in the early stages of a tourney and therefore a raise to 120 would be likely to get the same action. In the middle to latter stages of a tournament betting 3x the BB means something, in the early stages it really doesn't against most players. They don't think in terms of 3x the BB, they think "It's only 80 out of my stack".
There's 190 in the pot on the flop. I bet 150, also because a FD would still call this and I want the pot as big as possible.

If you had bet the flop you also could have stuck 400 in on the turn making it expensive enough for a FD to fold whilst picking up a nice pot.

You are more then likely to have the best hand on this flop, make him pay you off big. The general mistake you made (IMO) is keeping the pot small by playing fancy buggers.
If you think this guy is lose he will pay off your big bets more often then not and that is what you are going for against people like this. there is no need to play fancy against them. Play straightforward`"pay me you bastard" poker.

So, don't like the way the hand was played but his bet suggests a bluff more then anything else and your description of the guy makes me think he only has an Ace. (maybe even a weak King)
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stewart
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« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2007, 01:02:58 PM »

i understand why some would call, but if i am in that situation i would flat call that early with a 9-10 suited or an a2 suited, and i play them both the same way as the guy did, i would bet the all-in on the river and hope to get called by an AK/AQ,  you have so many chips passing doesnt affect you here, the reason i raise so much pre-flop is so i can bet a decent amount on the flop to get him to pass or set up a bigger move on the turn if he calls
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temp0r
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« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2007, 04:15:09 PM »

well after some thought i called and won. he had a small PP if i recall. it was hardly an insta-call obviously. alot beat me but none of it justified that kind of river bet. i like to take a chance sometimes early on in tornaments against overly aggressive players. you need chips baby. and he had just lost a pot the hand before. the check on the flop was always intended to induce something like this from him so i figured i had to call once i'd played the hand the way i had.

posted this thread to see whether you guys think the long term play is call or fold basically.
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stewart
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« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2007, 09:16:09 PM »

you may have won but you played it badly, like i said previously i presume you had called but agaist a half decent player you would of lost, and it would of been your fault, that early the guy could be setting an imagie you need at least 1 level maybe 2 to get to know how each player is playing and ablity
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