blonde Agony column..........

[smithy69]

If fish feel pain, then surely sticking them in a freezer isn't gonna feel like a holiday in the sun, or a bj from a fit girl.They will go into a coma, but this isnt gonna be instant

Its gonna hurt them and they will feel it

[Rod Paradise]

If fish feel pain, then surely sticking them in a freezer isn't gonna feel like a holiday in the sun, or a bj from a fit girl.They will go into a coma, but this isnt gonna be instant

Its gonna hurt them and they will feel it

Dunno, some creatures don't sense temperature changes the same as we do. Like frogs if you have a frog in a pan of cold water, then start heating it the frog won't notice the temperature rising, you can boil it to death but it won't try to get out. (I'm not advocating frog boiling - don't do it kids!).

How to euthanize a fish
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PZ Myers • 48 Comments (last page)
Idyllopus asks a good question: how do you humanely euthanize a fish? As a fish biologist, I get this question fairly often.

Another question I get is, "Fish can't feel pain, right?" It's usually phrased exactly that way, too—they aren't looking for an accurate answer, they're looking for a reassurance that casual brutality towards cold and slimy creatures is acceptable. The actual answer, though, is "Of course they can feel pain, you clueless boob! Mind if I put this barbed hook through your lip?"* The fish cutaneous sensory network is intricate and exquisite, and they react vigorously to noxious stimuli. We often don't recognize their responses because fish faces are rather expressionless, but if you're in the know you learn to notice the signs. Zebrafish, for instance, blanch noticeably when they're stressed or fearful or in pain.

So how should one kill a fish? People recommend some incredibly brutal methods. Throw them in a blender, they say, it's quick—yeah, and I imagine that throwing cats in a woodchipper would be quick, too, but no one suggests that humane societies should adopt it. There's also the 'club them over the head' method, or 'pick them up by the tail and whack them hard against a table edge'. Those work, if the executioner is swift and sure, which most people aren't. In most cases you end up with a fish frantically flopping on the table, or a bleeding mess of an animal that's feebly twitching, so you have to whack it a few times. (This is how my father and I used to kill salmon, though: we had a heavily weighted club, and we were also very quick and confident.) I think plucking an aquatic animal out of its environment and swinging it through a hostile atmosphere also counts as inhumane.

Less nasty techniques are the freezer and alcohol strategies. I don't think putting a fish in a freezer is humane: they don't seem to react strongly to slowly freezing to death, but then they can't—their metabolism is shutting down. Fish tend to be very sensitive to cold, though, and seek out optimal temperatures and avoid the cold, and can respond to changes of a few degrees with shock, so I have my doubts that this is a good way for them to go. Putting them in water with a few percent alcohol might be OK; they do get drunk, pass out, and die, just like people can.

Here's the way I euthanize fish, though, and since I've killed many thousands, I can say it's the cleanest, least painful way to do it, for both me and the fish. It's an anesthetic used for frogs and fish that goes by various names: ms222, MESAB, 3-aminobenzoic acid ethyl ester, tricaine methanesulfonate, or, as most of the pet and aquaculture supply houses call it, Finquel. For routine anesthesia, I use a 0.2% solution of the stuff—let a fish swim in it for a few minutes, they lose consciousness, you can do various surgeries on them, and then put them in clean fresh water, and a few minutes later, they're awake and swimming around again. If I need to euthanize them, I use a 0.4% solution (or more crudely, I use my 0.2% stock and sprinkle a few extra crystals of the ms222 powder in the beaker), put the fish in it, they fall asleep…and after 3-5 minutes, their heart stops. It will kill them at lower doses, but simply takes longer.

I get my stuff from Sigma, catalog number a-5040, for those of you who can purchase through academic suppliers. Otherwise, here are a few commercial places that will sell it to you: Doctors Foster & Smith, PondRX, and Argent Labs. It's about $15-20 for a 5 gram bottle, which sounds expensive, but a little goes a very long ways. I bought a 25 gram bottle 8 years ago, and I've still got lots left…and I euthanize fish far more often than your usual pet fish owner.

It's good to be prepared, too. Several years ago, my colony was suddenly struck with hemorrhagic septicemia, a bacterial infection that causes blood vessels to rupture and fish to die slowly and unpleasantly and messily, and after spending days trying to treat it with antibiotics and water changes and new tanks and hoses and so forth, I had to spend a sad afternoon putting about 400 fish out of their misery. Using an anesthetic in bulk was the only reasonable way to do it.



*While I am fully aware that fish can feel pain, I still enjoy fishing and eating fish. I just don't delude myself into thinking the fish are enjoying themselves in a friendly tussle out there on the end of the line.

[thetank]

Some intelligent, but ultimately useless advice.

This guy needs to kill 1,000s of fish, so buys a bottle of this stuff. I can get down with the economics of that.

Fair enough that the serious hobbyist has a bottle of this handy, but is somebody with a couple of goldfish going to shell out for a jar of ms222, MESAB, 3-aminobenzoic acid ethyl ester, tricaine methanesulfonate?

[matt674]

There's a surprise, a Scotsman saying the answer to all your problems is alcohol...........  

[smithy69]

lolol Matt

I think the clubbing is the best way if done quickly and correctly

[thetank]

There's a surprise, a Scotsman saying the answer to all your problems is alcohol........... 

......and another one who scoffs at the prospect of opening his wallet and shelling out $20 for 5g of die fish die.

[KingPoker]

I still stand by my food blender theory!!! The fish never has to leave the water simply pour him in there and turn it on. Instant fish puree!

[thetank]

I still stand by my food blender theory!!! The fish never has to leave the water simply pour him in there and turn it on. Instant fish puree!

Keep it in the boot next to the 3 wood.

[KingPoker]

I still stand by my food blender theory!!! The fish never has to leave the water simply pour him in there and turn it on. Instant fish puree!

Keep it in the boot next to the 3 wood.

Im not really in the habit of running gold fish over on the road tho!

[thetank]

Fair point.

[kinboshi]

Flushing it down the loo - is like trying to re-enact a scene from Free Willy (although as he was a whale, he wouldn't fit down the pan) - very humane in principle, but possibly slightly flawed.

A book that was a bestseller in Japan for ages might help us on our quest here.  'The Complete Manual of Suicide' wasn't targeted at goldfish (as they'd forget what they'd read on the previous page), but is an interesting read and it attempts to highlight the pros and cons of different methods of suicide.

Maybe some of these could be transferred over to our scaly friend?  I haven't got my copy to hand, but I remember that leaping in front of a train was a highly successful way of achieving a quick death (although in Japan your family is then responsible for the clean up operation, and so if you're not happy with them and want to kill yourself it's like getting Bully's special prize).  So one way of getting rid of the fish would be to place the goldfish bowl in the path of an oncoming tube train.  He wouldn't know what hit him.  Logistically, it might be difficult to execute correctly - and I suppose it's important to get the bowl at the right height so it isn't deflected and the fish's death extended over a period of time due to it not being completely obliterated.

Anyway, have a look at the overview of the book on Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Complete_Manual_of_Suicide - quite interesting, if slightly strange.

I think explosion is the way forward.  Instant, with no suffering.  Although slightly messy.

[matt674]

Flushing it down the loo - is like trying to re-enact a scene from Free Willy (although as he was a whale, he wouldn't fit down the pan) - very humane in principle, but possibly slightly flawed.

A book that was a bestseller in Japan for ages might help us on our quest here.  'The Complete Manual of Suicide' wasn't targeted at goldfish (as they'd forget what they'd read on the previous page), but is an interesting read and it attempts to highlight the pros and cons of different methods of suicide.

Maybe some of these could be transferred over to our scaly friend?  I haven't got my copy to hand, but I remember that leaping in front of a train was a highly successful way of achieving a quick death (although in Japan your family is then responsible for the clean up operation, and so if you're not happy with them and want to kill yourself it's like getting Bully's special prize).  So one way of getting rid of the fish would be to place the goldfish bowl in the path of an oncoming tube train.  He wouldn't know what hit him.  Logistically, it might be difficult to execute correctly - and I suppose it's important to get the bowl at the right height so it isn't deflected and the fish's death extended over a period of time due to it not being completely obliterated.

Anyway, have a look at the overview of the book on Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Complete_Manual_of_Suicide - quite interesting, if slightly strange.

I think explosion is the way forward.  Instant, with no suffering.  Although slightly messy.

would it not be simpler just to use the manual - literally?

[kinboshi]

Flushing it down the loo - is like trying to re-enact a scene from Free Willy (although as he was a whale, he wouldn't fit down the pan) - very humane in principle, but possibly slightly flawed.

A book that was a bestseller in Japan for ages might help us on our quest here.  'The Complete Manual of Suicide' wasn't targeted at goldfish (as they'd forget what they'd read on the previous page), but is an interesting read and it attempts to highlight the pros and cons of different methods of suicide.

Maybe some of these could be transferred over to our scaly friend?  I haven't got my copy to hand, but I remember that leaping in front of a train was a highly successful way of achieving a quick death (although in Japan your family is then responsible for the clean up operation, and so if you're not happy with them and want to kill yourself it's like getting Bully's special prize).  So one way of getting rid of the fish would be to place the goldfish bowl in the path of an oncoming tube train.  He wouldn't know what hit him.  Logistically, it might be difficult to execute correctly - and I suppose it's important to get the bowl at the right height so it isn't deflected and the fish's death extended over a period of time due to it not being completely obliterated.

Anyway, have a look at the overview of the book on Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Complete_Manual_of_Suicide - quite interesting, if slightly strange.

I think explosion is the way forward.  Instant, with no suffering.  Although slightly messy.

would it not be simpler just to use the manual - literally?

Might work for the goldfish...good point. 

More problematic using it to commit suicide though.

[Maddog]

I have found that a few drops  of dettol will do the job very quickly.

[KingPoker]

I have found that a few drops  of dettol will do the job very quickly.

  My favourite part of the quote. I just imagine you there with a whole box of cleaning stuff adding drops of each and taking notes!