COMIC RELIEF

[BigTomatoes]

 i think it is a basic god given right to reproduce and to say someone should not be allowed to bear children because they live in poverty is shocking imo. this view is fascist-like

 it is probably the only source of joy or happiness in these peoples lives to watch their offspring grow and mature .

 

[KingPoker]

Just tidy this up before i go to bed.

Neither me or bolt were taking the mick out of africa at all.

Nun asked earlier why do women in such extreme poverty and the likes continue to bring babies into that world and environment.
I argued that it is in the male genes to continue a bloodline, bolt said that they do it to take their mind off the horrible world in which they live then me and bolt went off topic i guess with him questioning why i had quoted his post on this in conjunction with mine as they were two very contrasting reasons.

And i think if anyone still thinks i am taking the piss then read my very first post in this thread and i think u wll find i havent done much laughing at the african situation tonight!!!!

i think it is a basic god given right to reproduce and to say someone should not be allowed to bear children because they live in poverty is shocking imo. this view is fascist-like

 it is probably the only source of joy or happiness in these peoples lives to watch their offspring grow and mature .

 

[thetank]

The Chinese instituted the one child per family rule in 1979.
They were commies, not facists, last time I looked.

I beleive it also misrepresents her position somewhat. I read her post as pushing for a greater amount of contraception awareness and availabilty in Africa, rather than the practice of female infanticide to be introduced or anything extreme like that.

I don't think the nun can be branded a fascist (or a commie for that matter). Perhaps you just meant to say that you feel her valid opinion is a touch naiive.

 it is probably the only source of joy or happiness in these peoples lives to watch their offspring grow and mature .
 

Some would argue this is naiive also. They may not have Nintendo, but they do have a rich culture in Africa.

[suzanne]

How can you argue with that

Silly thing is..Adam opened this thread to hopefully raise money for comic relief.

I hope we have all donated!!!?

[KingPoker]

Threads not just about donating, its about opening your eyes and it has produced a debate as good threads should.
People have a voice aswell not just a bank account

I dont think this thread will die just yet.

Africa is a HUGELY debatable subject as solutions and problems are so multi-factorial there can be no one answer!

[thetank]

I've been bandying about the word naiive a lot. I've never been to Africa, I've never studied demographics, or social politics to any high degree, and so that word is applicable to me as much as anyone else.

This came up the other day on 2+2....

http://www.hemmy.net/images/news/pulitzer.jpg

I've linked, rather than hot-linked to the photograph. Some may prefer not to see it.

A starving child is struggling to crawl to a food centre as a vulture looks on, waiting for the child to stop moving so it can get some lunch. A very famous picture, it won a pulitzer prize.

The photo journalist who took it, waited a long time (20 minutes) for the vulture to open it's wings. He believed that would have made a better shot.


Anyone not familar with this story, what are your initial thought on this?

[suzanne]

Read back to the original post

Adam has asked people to donate...whether you do or not is your choice.

Maybe you should open another thread debating the ins and outs?

[KingPoker]

I've been bandying about the word naiive a lot. I've never been to Africa, I've never studied demographics, or social politics to any high degree, and so that word is applicable to me as much as anyone else.

This came up the other day on 2+2....

http://www.hemmy.net/images/news/pulitzer.jpg

I've linked, rather than hot-linked to the photograph. Some may prefer not to see it.

A starving child is struggling to crawl to a food centre as a vulture looks on, waiting for the child to stop moving so it can get some lunch. A very famous picture, it won a pulitzer prize.

The phot journalist who took it, waited a long time for the vulture to open it's wings. He believed that would have made a better shot.


Anyone not familar with this story, what are your initial thought on this?

Ive certainly heard about it but never seen it.
I dont know why, as i know their procedure, but i feel really angry, angry that the photographer is simply waiting for the best shot instead of helping the poor child. I know would have. I hope he is haunted until he dies with his decision!!!

[suzanne]

Please tell me he helped the kid

[The Dundonian]

i think it is a basic god given right to reproduce and to say someone should not be allowed to bear children because they live in poverty is shocking imo. this view is fascist-like

 it is probably the only source of joy or happiness in these peoples lives to watch their offspring grow and mature .

 

The point of the Nuns post was "Why bring a child into the world for it to die of hunger in weeks/months of birth" A very valid point and one I'm sure we can all agree with. The fact is the children will not grow up and offer no happiness to anyone only heart-break.

Getting back to the original post of Adams, as soon as I get home I will donate a days wage to Comic Relief a truly noble cause and one that holds deep feelings and emotions for us all (as this thread proves).

I've been bandying about the word naiive a lot. I've never been to Africa, I've never studied demographics, or social politics to any high degree, and so that word is applicable to me as much as anyone else.

This came up the other day on 2+2....

http://www.hemmy.net/images/news/pulitzer.jpg

I've linked, rather than hot-linked to the photograph. Some may prefer not to see it.

A starving child is struggling to crawl to a food centre as a vulture looks on, waiting for the child to stop moving so it can get some lunch. A very famous picture, it won a pulitzer prize.

The phot journalist who took it, waited a long time for the vulture to open it's wings. He believed that would have made a better shot.


Anyone not familar with this story, what are your initial thought on this?

Ive certainly heard about it but never seen it.
I dont know why, as i know their procedure, but i feel really angry, angry that the photographer is simply waiting for the best shot instead of helping the poor child. I know would have. I hope he is haunted until he dies with his decision!!!

That photo may just generate millions of pounds in aid, so we should not be be so quick to condemn. Sometimes things have to be done for the greater good, however harrowing they may be at the time.

[thetank]

Journalists at the time were told not to touch famine victims as a disease precaution.
The photographer chased the bird away, but did not help the child. (Although the photo is said to have inspired millions of Americans to donate to Sudanese and African relief causes, helping thousands of other children.)

The New York times published the picture. It sparked a huge debate on the on the morality of photo journalism.

A couple of months after recieving news that his picture had won a Pulitzer prize for feature photography, the photographer commited suicide. KingPoker needn't feel too bad at his thirst for blood, the man who took the picture seemingly being of the same opinion.

[thetank]

Words taken and adapted mostly from wikipedia......


The Bang-Bang Club was a name primarily associated with four photographers active within the townships of South Africa during the Apartheid period. Kevin Carter (the man who went on to take the vulture pic), was one of the four main men associated with the name.

Many of the images taken by the Bang-Bang Club were transmitted and printed internationally, rarely (if ever) receiving attention within South Africa (this due to the government's strict control over the press). Publication of the images brought to the fore the reality of the oppressive Apartheid system.

Ultimately the pictures served to increase international pressure on the South African government to allow fully democratic elections.



Kevin Carter said this of his pictures taken in South Africa..

"I was appalled at what they were doing. I was appalled at what I was doing. But then people started talking about those pictures... then I felt that maybe my actions hadn't been at all bad. Being a witness to something this horrible wasn't necessarily such a bad thing to do."

Portions of Carter's suicide note read:

"I am depressed ...I am haunted by the vivid memories of killings & corpses & anger & pain ... of starving or wounded children, of trigger-happy madmen, often police, of killer executioners"


Youtube links.

Manic Street Preachers - Kevin Carter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7hw5NkSPvs

Tribute to Kevin Carter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FC7UyAN-jrY

The Unkown Toddler
Not a pleasant video to watch at all. It contains "graphic images of reality" and would certainly recieve an 18 certificate.
Not even going to link to it. Search youtube for "the unkown toddler" if you wish to watch.

[AdamM]

there's no 'debate' involved in the giving of money, just in how it's spent, and that's not a debate for the giver.

there's some daft points been made on the thread but I'm not getting involved.

just stick some paper money in the box and try not to make it once every couple of years

[redimp]

38 million so far wtg

[tikay]

I've been bandying about the word naiive a lot. I've never been to Africa, I've never studied demographics, or social politics to any high degree, and so that word is applicable to me as much as anyone else.

This came up the other day on 2+2....

http://www.hemmy.net/images/news/pulitzer.jpg

I've linked, rather than hot-linked to the photograph. Some may prefer not to see it.

A starving child is struggling to crawl to a food centre as a vulture looks on, waiting for the child to stop moving so it can get some lunch. A very famous picture, it won a pulitzer prize.

The photo journalist who took it, waited a long time (20 minutes) for the vulture to open it's wings. He believed that would have made a better shot.


Anyone not familar with this story, what are your initial thought on this?

Nature is a very efficient thing, sometimes wonderful, sometimes achingly brutal. A child & a vulture, both desperate for food. What a thought-provoking picture.